Difference between revisions of "Puch timing"

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Seeing the points open is wrong, it's soo far off compared to using a timing light.
 
Seeing the points open is wrong, it's soo far off compared to using a timing light.
 
You do not need a degree wheel, the flywheel is 360 mm and 360 degrees .
 
You do not need a degree wheel, the flywheel is 360 mm and 360 degrees .
You cannot time a puch by ear, it's not a small block Chevy.  You got to time about 16-17 degrees before top dead center which is 16-17 mm on the flywheel.  An aluminum cylinder kit will run great at full advance but it gets hot and boom, seize, it needs a little less then 17 degrees timing. All timing is Before Top Dead Center or
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You cannot time a puch by ear or eye very accurately it's not a small block Chevy.   
BTDC
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You got to time about 14-17.5 degrees before top dead center for a e50, which is 14-17.5 mm on the flywheel, the specs on a za50 is more but only stock  Applications.
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  An aluminum cylinder kit will run great at full advance but it gets hot quick  and can seize, it needs a little less then 17 degrees timing many times, most times  14 to 14.5° BTDC
 +
All timing is Before Top Dead Center (BTDC) not after top dead center,
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 +
To find top dead center use a long reach plug or piston stop.  Put it in the plug hole just enough for the piston to hit when you turn the flywheel. When it hits put a mark on the flywheel and case.  Then turn the flywheel the other way until piston hits stop then transfer the mark from the flywheel to the case.
  
To find top dead center use a long reach plug or piston stop.  Put it in the plug hole just enough for the piston to hit when you turn the flywheel. When it hits put a mark on the flywheel and case.  Then turn the flywheel the other way (against the sense) until it hits then transfer the mark from the flywheel to the case.
 
 
You will have 2 marks on the case and one on the flywheel.
 
You will have 2 marks on the case and one on the flywheel.
Measure and find the middle of the two case marks and mark it.  Erase/ remove the outer marker marks with alcohol.  If you put the long plug or stop in just right the marks won't be as far apart so it will be easy to measure.
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Measure and find the middle of the two case marks and mark it.  Erase/ remove the outer marker marks with alcohol.  
 +
  If you put the long plug or stop in just right the marks won't be as far apart so it will be easy to measure.
 
The flywheel mark when lined up to the middle case mark IS TOP DEAD CENTER.
 
The flywheel mark when lined up to the middle case mark IS TOP DEAD CENTER.
  
Now put a mark 17 mm before (to the right e50, left za50) the middle case mark.  When the mark on the flywheel lines up to the 17 mm mark on the case under a timing light you are at 17 DEGREES BEFORE TOP DEAD CENTER. No other way is accurate period. Note: Flywheel magnetos have a rotation arrow stamped on it. Either Clockwise or Counter Clockwise and make sure it is the correct one.
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Now put a mark, (we will use 17 mm as an example) 17 mm before (to the right e50 to the left on a za50) the middle case mark on engine case.  When the single mark on the flywheel lines up to the 17 mm mark on the case under a timing light you are at 17 DEGREES BEFORE TOP DEAD CENTER. Your eye and no other way is as accurate,
 +
 
 +
Note: Flywheel magnetos have a rotation arrow stamped on it. Either Clockwise or Counter Clockwise and make sure it is the correct one for your engine
 +
 
 +
Za50 is marked backwards then e50 and many people put timing marks on the flywheel instead of case so both will be backwards from description from the Top Dead Center mark on the flywheel and case,
 +
 
 +
Now you must set points before you run engine to see the timing under a light
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E50 spec is 16-18 thousand gap when points are open, za50 a bit more but not if kitted
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 +
Here is a za50 with the Timing marks on case with and only one top dead center mark on flywheel
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KVVKDIjeG3A
 +
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Now here can be the flaw with puch point ignitions, if you gap them at 16-18 thou gap then even at full retard you can be almost 20-21 degrees BTDC or 20-21mm on the flywheel under a timing light which is too high for a kit and you will be taking a chance of seizing your engine though for complete stock setup it maybe ok,
  
Now you must set points before you run engine to see timing.
+
You may need to take the stator out and dremel the slots so you can move it for more retard or shrink the point gap like 12 thousand (but shrinking gap can make you lose kv and maybe dwell too). Za50 you dremel  opposite side of Stator plate then a e50
E50 spec is 16-18 thousand gap when points are open.  Now here is the flaw with puch point ignition if you gap them at 16-18 thou gap then even at full retard your at about 20-21 degrees or mm on the flywheel under a timing light which is too high for a kit and you will be taking a chance of boom seizing your engine.  You need to take the stator out and dremel the slots so you can move it more retard or shrink the point gap like 12 thousand which makes you lose kv and dwell.
 
  
So in a nut shell stock timing is not good can and will blow aftermarket kits because of heat.  A 40 buck head temp gauge can save you grief cause you can see head temps.  400 degrees is the danger area.
+
So in a nut shell high timing is not good for/can blow aftermarket kits because of heat.  A 40 buck head temp gauge can save you grief cause you can see head temps.  400 degrees is the danger area.
 
You got issues if your kit don't run and run cool enough with 14- 14.5  degrees timing.
 
You got issues if your kit don't run and run cool enough with 14- 14.5  degrees timing.
  
  
 
[[Category: Puch]]  [[Category: Puch Repair/Modification Tutorials]]
 
[[Category: Puch]]  [[Category: Puch Repair/Modification Tutorials]]

Revision as of 14:17, 14 August 2019

Some thoughts from Ken Roff on Puch timing:

Seeing the points open is wrong, it's soo far off compared to using a timing light. You do not need a degree wheel, the flywheel is 360 mm and 360 degrees . You cannot time a puch by ear or eye very accurately it's not a small block Chevy. You got to time about 14-17.5 degrees before top dead center for a e50, which is 14-17.5 mm on the flywheel, the specs on a za50 is more but only stock Applications.

An aluminum cylinder kit will run great at full advance but it gets hot quick  and can seize, it needs a little less then 17 degrees timing many times, most times  14 to 14.5° BTDC 

All timing is Before Top Dead Center (BTDC) not after top dead center,

To find top dead center use a long reach plug or piston stop. Put it in the plug hole just enough for the piston to hit when you turn the flywheel. When it hits put a mark on the flywheel and case. Then turn the flywheel the other way until piston hits stop then transfer the mark from the flywheel to the case.

You will have 2 marks on the case and one on the flywheel. Measure and find the middle of the two case marks and mark it. Erase/ remove the outer marker marks with alcohol.

If you put the long plug or stop in just right the marks won't be as far apart so it will be easy to measure.

The flywheel mark when lined up to the middle case mark IS TOP DEAD CENTER.

Now put a mark, (we will use 17 mm as an example) 17 mm before (to the right e50 to the left on a za50) the middle case mark on engine case. When the single mark on the flywheel lines up to the 17 mm mark on the case under a timing light you are at 17 DEGREES BEFORE TOP DEAD CENTER. Your eye and no other way is as accurate,

Note: Flywheel magnetos have a rotation arrow stamped on it. Either Clockwise or Counter Clockwise and make sure it is the correct one for your engine

Za50 is marked backwards then e50 and many people put timing marks on the flywheel instead of case so both will be backwards from description from the Top Dead Center mark on the flywheel and case,

Now you must set points before you run engine to see the timing under a light E50 spec is 16-18 thousand gap when points are open, za50 a bit more but not if kitted

Here is a za50 with the Timing marks on case with and only one top dead center mark on flywheel https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KVVKDIjeG3A

Now here can be the flaw with puch point ignitions, if you gap them at 16-18 thou gap then even at full retard you can be almost 20-21 degrees BTDC or 20-21mm on the flywheel under a timing light which is too high for a kit and you will be taking a chance of seizing your engine though for complete stock setup it maybe ok,

You may need to take the stator out and dremel the slots so you can move it for more retard or shrink the point gap like 12 thousand (but shrinking gap can make you lose kv and maybe dwell too). Za50 you dremel opposite side of Stator plate then a e50

So in a nut shell high timing is not good for/can blow aftermarket kits because of heat. A 40 buck head temp gauge can save you grief cause you can see head temps. 400 degrees is the danger area. You got issues if your kit don't run and run cool enough with 14- 14.5 degrees timing.