Difference between revisions of "Ignition timing for CDI"

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CDI Timing for Mopeds 101, [http://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/discuss/read.php?f=7&i=216204&t=215026 originally posted in the forums.]
 
CDI Timing for Mopeds 101, [http://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/discuss/read.php?f=7&i=216204&t=215026 originally posted in the forums.]
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==Video==
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For people who like videos, an alternate timing method than the one explained below can be seen in [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lF4nI_aisM&feature=player_embedded this video].
  
 
==About timing==
 
==About timing==

Revision as of 19:45, 3 November 2011

CDI Timing for Mopeds 101, originally posted in the forums.

Video

For people who like videos, an alternate timing method than the one explained below can be seen in this video.

About timing

Timing a bike refers to setting when a spark jumps the gap between the center electrode and the ground electrode on a spark plug and its relation to the rotation of the crankshaft. Adjusting when this happens is very important and can significantly affect how the bike runs.

This has been achieved by using a mechanical system called points ignition for many years. Recently, advances in electronics have introduced the CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) which is what we will examine here.

Lets look at the parts of a CDI system and how they work.

  1. Flywheel (internal rotor, or external rotor) with magnets
  2. Stator plate with coils and pickup/hall sensor (as opposed to a points stator plate, which has points and a condensor)
  3. CDI box
  4. High Tension Coil
  5. Spark Plug

Timing and CDI's

We won't go into great depths on how the CDI produces the spark, or how electricity works in general (we are only interested in getting the spark to happen at the appropriate time) but I will glance over the important parts that relate to the timing.

The basics

The flywheel is attached to the crankshaft. When the engine is running, the flywheel spins in either a clockwise or counterclockwise direction(depending on your engine). The stator plate is attached to the engine and stays stationary while the engine is running. The stator has 2 main ignition components, a coil, and a hall sensor/pickup. When the flywheel spins next to the coil, the magnetic fields from the magnets produce electrical current that flows through wires wrapped around the coil. A wire attached to the stator carries this current to the CDI box which has a capacitor. The current is stored in the capacitor (a capacitor is a little like a battery) until it is ready to be sent to the spark plug to create the spark. The hall sensor detects changes in the magnetic field and sends a signal to the CDI box via a wire. This signal is created by the hall effect and it happens when the flywheel magnet changes poles over the top of the pickup (N to S, or S to N depending on the flywheel and it’s rotation). When this signal is received by the box, it discharges the capacitor and sends that electrical current to the spark plug (through the HT coil which converts the current to high voltage) and this is the point when the spark plug fires.

Effects of timing and curves

Before we actually set the timing on a bike, lets talk about the effects of different timing, and why some CDI boxes have a curve.

Once the timing has been set somewhere around a few mm before the piston reaches top dead center the bike will run. Too far in either direction and it will run very poorly, but get it close to optimal and it will run nicely. Once it runs well, changes in spark timing have the most effect on the temperature of the gasses that exit out the exhaust port of a cylinder. What this means is that if a spark happens somewhere around 2.5mm before top dead center (BTDC), combustion will complete earlier in the cycle and have time to dissipate its heat into the head, piston, and cylinder before the exhaust port opens. This means that the gasses that exit out the exhaust will be cooler. When the spark happens later, lets say somewhere around .5mm BTDC the combustion process completes later, and the exhaust gasses have less time in contact with the head, piston, and cylinder walls. This means the gasses that exit out the exhaust port will be hotter. Why do we care what temperature the exhaust gasses exit? I’m glad you asked… the hotter the gasses, the faster the gasses will travel down the exhaust pipe. The cooler the gasses, the slower they will travel. So why do we care how fast they travel? I’m glad you asked… Slower gasses will move the powerband of a pipe to LOWER rpms. Faster gasses will shift the powerband of a pipe to HIGHER rpms. So as timing changes, so does the powerband of a pipe. We can use this information to our advantage. If we have variable timing we can have a variable powerband of a pipe, right? So why not have the powerband of a pipe be at lower rpms when the engine is actually at lower rpms and then have the powerband of a pipe be at higher rpms when the engine is actually at higher rpms. This is exactly what happens in cdi’s that have a curve. They start out with more advanced timing at lower rpms (to shift the powerband of the pipe to lower rpms), and then retard the timing at higher rpms (to shift the powerband of the pipe to higher rpms). Some cdi’s dont have a curve though, and you have to compromise. If you do not have a curve on your cdi, you set the timing so the powerband of your pipe is where you want it. Set it more advanced to lower the peak power rpm value, and set it more retarded to have the peak power of the pipe at a higher rpm value. There are limits to how far you can advance/retard your timing however, as your bike may not run properly if it is too far in either direction.

Setting the timing

Now that we know the effects of timing values lets talk about how to set the timing on a CDI.

Special tools Needed:

  1. Timing light
  2. Micrometer
  3. Sharpie marker
  4. Piston stop

There are two parts of the CDI system that we can move to adjust the timing relative to piston position: the flywheel and the pickup. These are the only two things that we can move in relation to the piston/crankshaft that will change the timing. I prefer to attach the stator and pickup to the engine securely in a position that is convenient for me and then leave it there. This will take the pickup position out of the equation and leave us with one moving part that determines timing relative to the piston: the flywheel. At this point I like to remove the woodruff key and install the flywheel at a random position. Make sure the flywheel is attached securely. Make a mark with your sharpie on your engine case where it is easy to see. Attach your timing light and point it at the flywheel. Turn the bike over and the light should fire when the spark is firing. Make note of the position of the flywheel relative to the mark you made on the engine case. Stop turning the bike over and make a sharpie mark that lines up with the mark on the engine case when the light was firing. When these two lines line up, this is where the spark is firing. Remove your spark plug and insert your micrometer. Find TDC and adjust your micrometer to read 0 at TDC. Now rotate your flywheel until your micrometer reads where you want your timing to be set at. In our case lets pick 1.5mm BTDC (make sure its BEFORE top dead center, not AFTER or your bike will not work). When you have the crankshaft at this position hold the flywheel stationary so the crankshaft does not move, and insert your piston stop so it just barely hits the piston. If you have done this correctly the piston stop will keep your piston at 1.5mm BTDC and you can adjust the flywheel to now spark at this position. To adjust the flywheel all you need to do is loosen it so that you can turn it, and then turn the flywheel to the point where the two marks you made before line up. You must keep the crankshaft stationary while doing this, so it is much easier to spin the flywheel in the direction that keeps the piston pushing against the piston stop. Once the two lines are lined up, your spark is set to 1.5mm BTDC. Tighten down your flywheel and start your engine. Blast.

If your CDI has a curve

I picked 1.5mm BTDC above as an arbitrary number. Lets talk about where you should set your timing for your specific application. If you have a CDI that does not have a curve then you will probably want to set your timing somewhere between 1.0mm and 2.5mm BTDC. Setting it much lower than 1.0mm BTDC will cause the bike to run poorly. But setting your timing towards the lower end of the scale will move the powerband of the pipe to higher rpms giving your bike higher top speeds (theoretically. If your bike produces enough torque to pull your gearing at high speeds then it will go faster). Setting it much higher than 2.5 and your bike will also run poorly and you run the risk of other problems such as detonation and/or pre-ignition. However setting it towards the higher end of this scale will yield more power at lower rpms for better takeoff and midrange.

If your CDI has a curve on it, it makes things a bit more complicated, but if you understand the implications of variable timing as laid out above, then you can use this to your advantage and increase power at all rpm ranges. Let’s take a simple curve example: The stock timing curve of a Puch HPI ignition. The curve looks something like this:

^
|
RPMs
|***
|***
|***
|***
|***
|_______
mm ->

The curve from this box is (roughly) linear. As the rpm’s increase, the timing retards. So when setting the timing for this application we would set the timing at idle to be on the more advanced end of the scale laid out above. 2.5mm would be a good setting at idle, because it will give us better low end power. Then as the rpm’s increase the timing will automatically retard itself to give us more power at higher rpms. Sounds like the perfect curve right? It’s pretty good, but idling at 2.5mm BTDC can be rough sometimes. But if we set the timing to 1.5mm (for better idle and less chance of detonation/pre-ignition) and as RPMs increase, we run the risk of actually having the spark retard itself so far that it’s firing AFTER the piston reaches TDC which can rob us of power.

Some CDI’s have an initial advance to them before retarding back to the original timing at idle, or even further retarding it past the point where the timing was at idle. The curve looks something like this:

^
|
RPMs
|
|***
|*** ***
|*** ***
|***
|_______
mm ->

When setting the timing on a CDI with a curve like this, you want to set your idle timing somewhere in the middle of the scale. Somewhere around 1.8mm BTDC. This is because if we set it at 2.5, the timing advance might put the timing at 4mm BTDC at the top of the curve and that can put us in extreme danger of detonation and/or preignition. When set at 1.8 the advance will give us low end and midrange power, and then increase our top speed by retarding the timing and shifting the powerband to higher rpms exactly when we get to the higher rpms.

This is a vary basic tutorial on CDI timing. Now go out there, use this as a base for experimentation, and go faster.

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