So I was reading
And it seems pretty inconsistent, all the way from 1.5mm btdc, to 3mm btdc
And are you setting exclusively with a timing light? Or are you using the indicators on the flywheel and magneto via Maize handily e50hpi video?
It would be nice to use the indicators as I always question the settings using a drill since the rpm point is wildly lower then what the bike will even idle at
So I only have V1 experience but
I set around 2.45-2.96mm BTDC on a motor that normally has an 80mm stator, and I use the arrow that points to the second mark to set my timing.
I.e: if I want 2.96 I use a set of calipers and get the piston to 2.96, then I line the marks up and tighten down the nut.
Im at 2.5mm on my peugeot with hpi
I always set mine low and then bump it up after I get a feel for how the bike runs and get the jetting dialed in.
Riggsby turned me on to: https://lambretta-images.com/tuningh/port-timing-calculators/degrees-to-mm-timing-calculator/ . Peugeot has a 39.1mm stroke and 76mm conrod unless you have the 85mm conrod malossi "not-stroker but marketed as a stroker cuz euros don't know what stroke is apparently" crank in there. From there, get it started, and rev out on the stand with the timing light on it, and mark where initial fire is and where it ends up retarding down to. You can then measure the distance between these with your micrometer and get the curve, so you'll know where to set your max advance in order to retard down to a reasonable point. I like to set stuff so it retards down to 17* or 18* or about 1mm-1.1mm btdc on peugeot, and that makes total sense since that's where most people static time le partie, the but that's fairly conservative.
PS ryan i think this is why you had trouble with the le partie on the metrakit. i tried one on malossi cases, and even used this box: https://www.treatland.tv/MVT-cdi-box-RJ051X-p/mvt-rj051x.htm so I'd have a curve, and I wasn't able to make decent power with it without advancing it too far above my comfort zone.
> iskra chornia wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Riggsby turned me on to:
> https://lambretta-images.com/tuningh/port-timing-calculators/degrees-to-mm-timing-calculator/
> . Peugeot has a 39.1mm stroke and 76mm conrod unless you have the 85mm
> conrod malossi "not-stroker but marketed as a stroker cuz euros don't
> know what stroke is apparently" crank in there. From there, get it
> started, and rev out on the stand with the timing light on it, and mark
> where initial fire is and where it ends up retarding down to. You can
> then measure the distance between these with your micrometer and get the
> curve, so you'll know where to set your max advance in order to retard
> down to a reasonable point. I like to set stuff so it retards down to
> 17* or 18* or about 1mm-1.1mm btdc on peugeot, and that makes total
> sense since that's where most people static time le partie, the but
> that's fairly conservative.
Oddly enough I will be using the full Malossi stroker set up on a LC 50cc Doppler cylinder, I think im just gonna try 2.5mm to start then play with the stator position from there to dial it in as I want, I think making marks like you suggested is a good idea, always more to learn!
why not start even lower with timing? somewhere guaranteed to almost be too low.
and why not gear lower too.
then you can make sure you are making all of your rpms and that temps are in check without having to go 65mph.
then you can add more gearing and check temps again. then add timing if your temps are in check and you need more power in the midrange.
or don’t and just make a thread asking where to set your timing and then just trivially set it somewhere for fun and then move on to another bike when this one doesn’t perform :)
i added too much timing to the soup on a doppler lc 50 and all I got was a hole in my piston :(
think that was with 1.3mm on a static box so around 19* as I was using an artek crank. LC setups can cheat a bit with more advance, but def in riggsby’s corner now on the “start low and work your way up” method. I mean, we start rich and work our way down for jetting, so why not the same for timing?
> iskra chornia wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> i added too much timing to the soup on a doppler lc 50 and all I got was
> a hole in my piston :(
>
> think that was with 1.3mm on a static box so around 19* as I was using
> an artek crank. LC setups can cheat a bit with more advance, but def in
> riggsby’s corner now on the “start low and work your way up” method. I
> mean, we start rich and work our way down for jetting, so why not the
> same for timing?
I did the exact same thing on a 64cc cast iron Malossi at Daggers, live and ya learn right? But I agree it can be changed so start safe and get aggressive.
Set the timing at 2.5 yesterday after a very long night of getting this thing together, it started right up but would only idle with the choke on
I’m running a 21 Phbg on a 4-petal Malossi reed block, started at 82, which I know is lean since I’m running a 102 or so on my LC Doppler av10 set up, but I was happy to hear it pop to life after a good 8 hours of wrenching yesterday
More tuning and playing to come
(edited)
> iskra chornia wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> PS ryan i think this is why you had trouble with the le partie on the
> metrakit. i tried one on malossi cases, and even used this box:
> https://www.treatland.tv/MVT-cdi-box-RJ051X-p/mvt-rj051x.htm so I'd have
> a curve, and I wasn't able to make decent power with it without
> advancing it too far above my comfort zone.
I tried le partie on two bikes and it never ran correctly. It was definitely the unit.
> Ryan Nash wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > iskra chornia wrote:
>
> > -------------------------------------------------------
>
> > PS ryan i think this is why you had trouble with the le partie on the
>
> > metrakit. i tried one on malossi cases, and even used this box:
>
> > https://www.treatland.tv/MVT-cdi-box-RJ051X-p/mvt-rj051x.htm so I'd
> have
>
> > a curve, and I wasn't able to make decent power with it without
>
> > advancing it too far above my comfort zone.
>
> I tried le partie on two bikes and it never ran correctly. It was
> definitely the unit.
Sadly Ryan is right (I say sadly because the le partie is like the gold standard for great cheap cdi's), while he was troubleshooting his we chatted and realized I had the same issue on an AV10 I had worked on and set aside due to frustrations I couldn't nail down, I removed the brand new le partie and swapped some god knows how old beat up faded unit on the bike, bam issues were gone
I think it was just a bad run, but who knows
hmmmm, i've run them since then with no issues, so perhaps a few slipped qc, but the symptoms sounded super strange. did they come in the usually cardboard box or were they loose/in a blister pack? we do have some sketchy ones we received which are set aside for stock emergencies. if either of you still have yours that were acting up, would totally buy them off you for testing.
Don’t go crazy with timing run a tight squish! Set the timing to 1mm and leave a lot of room in the screw slots to advance the timing until temps become to much.
> iskra chornia wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> hmmmm, i've run them since then with no issues, so perhaps a few slipped
> qc, but the symptoms sounded super strange. did they come in the usually
> cardboard box or were they loose/in a blister pack? we do have some
> sketchy ones we received which are set aside for stock emergencies. if
> either of you still have yours that were acting up, would totally buy
> them off you for testing.
I tossed the stator as I have tons of spares, everyone in the Midwest who gives up on French bikes gives me their projects so I have soooo many
> iskra chornia wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> hmmmm, i've run them since then with no issues, so perhaps a few slipped
> qc, but the symptoms sounded super strange. did they come in the usually
> cardboard box or were they loose/in a blister pack? we do have some
> sketchy ones we received which are set aside for stock emergencies. if
> either of you still have yours that were acting up, would totally buy
> them off you for testing.
I would guess more than a few slipped QC. I’ve had quite a few of these units over the years and I’d say my success rate is about 50%. I don’t recommend them to anyone unless they’re ok throwing cash away.
If you wanna buy it off of me you’re welcome to. I’ll even include the extra coil and pickup. Might have a second box laying around too.
> Ryan Nash wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > iskra chornia wrote:
>
> > -------------------------------------------------------
>
> > hmmmm, i've run them since then with no issues, so perhaps a few
> slipped
>
> > qc, but the symptoms sounded super strange. did they come in the
> usually
>
> > cardboard box or were they loose/in a blister pack? we do have some
>
> > sketchy ones we received which are set aside for stock emergencies. if
>
> > either of you still have yours that were acting up, would totally buy
>
> > them off you for testing.
>
> I would guess more than a few slipped QC. I’ve had quite a few of these
> units over the years and I’d say my success rate is about 50%. I don’t
> recommend them to anyone unless they’re ok throwing cash away.
>
> If you wanna buy it off of me you’re welcome to. I’ll even include the
> extra coil and pickup. Might have a second box laying around too.
I love their static boxes! I use them on Pietcard set ups on Garelli when I don’t want a curve, I’ve also never blown one
Switched the timing to 1.5mm BTDC
38 idle/2nd richest setting on w7 needle/103 main/4-petal Malossi reed block/21 PHBG, needs to be tuned more obviously, but so far it’s naaasssstttyyyyy
I seized my bike running too retarded of timing on hpi on my peugeot once. It put too much heat into the exhaust. That’s why I run a little bit more advanced (2.8mm) and it shreds.
> Slug Scouten wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Switched the timing to 1.5mm BTDC
>
> 38 idle/2nd richest setting on w7 needle/103 main/4-petal Malossi reed
> block/21 PHBG, needs to be tuned more obviously, but so far it’s
> naaasssstttyyyyy
>
>
WAIT!!! YOU WENT LOWER ON TIMING IT WAS GREAT???
don’t you wish you just start lower :)
> LSLB RXb wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Slug Scouten wrote:
>
> > -------------------------------------------------------
>
> > Switched the timing to 1.5mm BTDC
>
> >
>
> > 38 idle/2nd richest setting on w7 needle/103 main/4-petal Malossi reed
>
> > block/21 PHBG, needs to be tuned more obviously, but so far it’s
>
> > naaasssstttyyyyy
>
> >
>
> >
>
> WAIT!!! YOU WENT LOWER ON TIMING IT WAS GREAT???
>
> don’t you wish you just start lower :)
Correct is correct, and you were lol
Nash, I’ve got LOTTTSSS more tuning, I’m sure it won’t stay here, but smaller cylinder then the Airsal, and the Polini circuit, while hardly a “circuit” probably moves air quicker but builds up less in the power band
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