Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Totally normal JBOT /

My swinging hobbit engine on pinto frame with moby pulley needed more travel, the original mini scooter spring / shock bottomed out too quickly. Wasn’t a problem with my crazy high revving kit I used to run, but since I threw on a DR, it’s just topping out way too fast.

So I added a recut Xtreme bell at 11deg, and my vari is at 10 deg, identical to the malossi variotop. That will allow big variation.

Then I needed to make a springy assembly, took forever cuz I thought I wouldnt have room to run the scooter contra I was running before, but when I was almost done I saw a perfect spot for it inside the old pinto frame. And holes that existed in the frame fit it like it was meant to go there.

I ran a shock eye from a hobbit shock I think.... attached to the lowest motor mount on the hobbit engine. The eye is threaded, so I just added a threaded rod (an engine stud I found).

Then I took the nylon inner piece from a revival shock and turned it to fit into some pipe, welded nuts onto each side with holes in the pipe so the bolts could go thru the assembly as the pivot points.

Then I cut a groove to hold the scooter contra in the nylon, and had to play with spacing to avoid hitting the intake but finally it came together.

Now I just have to change the pipe mount to attempt to keep the swing angle closer to the engine swing angle....those mid pipe ball joints prefer to not move a ton so if I can match the angle it might not have to move much in its swing. Not ready for parallelogram just yet.

Anyways, psyched on this.

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Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Totally normal JBOT /

If you have mismatched bushings you can always add hdpe shim to take up the slop. It’s very strong and won’t compress easily.

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Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Reminds me of this type of French spring set up.

Although the fancy French ones have a sleeve that protrudes with the bolt/nut to prevent the spring from bending. Contra springs probably don't have that issue though.

Here's another one I saw the other day..

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Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Totally normal JBOT /

Double post (edited)

Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Totally normal JBOT /

Haha omg hilarious! I’ve never seen that.

It just makes sense tho.

Yeah contras dont bend if they’re pushed in a straight line. On a real moby my version is even easier as you don’t even need the pivot pins and a standard scooter contra fits like it was meant to be there, just have to cut off the original spring bracket on the frame. The trade off is sooo worth it

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Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

> L e e wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Reminds me of this type of French spring set up.

>

> Although the fancy French ones have a sleeve that protrudes with the

> bolt/nut to prevent the spring from bending. Contra springs probably

> don't have that issue though.

>

> Here's another one I saw the other day..

I use almost the exact same set up, but instead of springs I prefer gas shocks, since I can order them in 5lbs increments, though a spring with a tension point would produce the same results

Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Totally normal JBOT /

You can’t adjust the preload on a gas shock, or can you?

Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Totally normal JBOT /

This was my final version for the real moby (in case this is of interest to anyone), it had literal gear shifting with a paddle shifter to lock the gearing on the shaft. I don’t have a crazy amount of variation on this bike, if I switch to a variotop I’d have to change this setup as it would bottom out with spring coil binding too fast (edited)

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Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

> Totally normal JBOT wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> This was my final version for the real moby (in case this is of interest

> to anyone), it had literal gear shifting with a paddle shifter to lock

> the gearing on the shaft. I don’t have a crazy amount of variation on

> this bike, if I switch to a variotop I’d have to change this setup as it

> would bottom out with spring coil binding too fast

That's interesting, I've been meaning to try the bicycle caliper to act as a lunch lever type thing. I think you have done on previous builds.

Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Totally normal JBOT /

Using a launch lever brake is the best thing that no one is doing. It gives you so much control, just have to get used to using the left hand as the vari lock control. It’s especially handy if you’re running a high rpm setup.

Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Totally normal JBOT /

Changed the spring to be much weaker because the weight of the back section of the pipe now pushes against the motor at top variation. So got that spring in and patched my first tube (vulcanizing fluid oh yeah) and it’s great.

Glad it’s over tho, all this geometry hurts my brain after awhile. Change one thing and a different thing needs to be changed. Then cuz you changed that, there’s another thing that has to get done then again X 100.

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Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Totally normal JBOT /

I need more variation so I switched to a Bx belt. But it’s a drag cuz it’s so thick. I’m using a very cut bell cheek that’s still 15deg like stock but it’s pushed way back into the bell so a wide belt can fit. A wide belt will just variate further.

My issue was the height of the belt so I trimmed the teeth on the bench grinder and dug out some deeper grooves in the belt with a dremel.

Looks great. Now just have to cut the aluminum pulley to allow the wider belt to sit a bit deeper.

Lots of fun working on weird ass French situations

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Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Try one of these

https://www.biedlers-belts.com/gates-5vx350-belt.html

Also wish I could chuck up a rear pulley in my lathe but it's too smol. (edited)

Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Totally normal JBOT /

It’s only 14mm, this one is like 16-17mm and it gets down onto the boss of the front vari. I don’t mind cutting belts, you get great rewards for doing weird things

Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Totally normal JBOT /

Well so I figured out a way to widen the pulley V since my tool holder couldn’t get in there. I sanded it with an existing 1/2in belt on the lathe with sticky sandpaper. It worked great. Just held the belt taut and it took the material off.

But my issue THEN was something I wasn’t planning on. Such a fat belt just isn’t malleable enough if you remove some height from it as I did. Would be fine on a hobbit but not on a moby.

Now It’s a jumper! Lol now it variates so far that it pops out of the large pulley due to misalignment. If I space the engine for low end it’s great then pops out once I get to the top, space for high end it pops out at low to mid rpm. Just too much motion and it jumps on top of the pulley. Sucks. But nbd, I went back to 1/2in belt and will try to find the belt you mentioned at 14mm and see if I squeak a bit more variation out of it.

> L e e wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Try one of these

>

> https://www.biedlers-belts.com/gates-5vx350-belt.html

>

> Also wish I could chuck up a rear pulley in my lathe but it's too smol.

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Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Totally normal JBOT /

Oh dear I had to change it. Moved the spring mount back into the original big pinto frame holes, made bushings for them out of cutting board, then added a rear hdpe piece in the back of the spring support to keep the now extended 5/16 rod straight in/out of the unit. One small hdpe plate allows it to get off kilter. 2 will solidify the travel to be linear.

And now it’s great. Finally getting decent variation and not topping out at 45.

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Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Totally normal JBOT /

More pics

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Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Man that's wild. I wonder if fudging the taper on the belt would help the misalignment thing, like make it intentionally a bit narrower at the bottom so it has more lead in?

Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Or, make the rear pulley float a bit with smol springs.

You'd have to decouple the drive chain moving from it though.

Didn't the MVR have a rear pulley that was 'auto-aligning'?

Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Totally normal JBOT /

It’s just the big belt guys. If my pulley moves as much as it should I’ll end up being misaligned with the sprockets.

I got it much better with 1/2in belt, had an issue I hate to admit but part of my 1/2in variation prob was actually a standard stock vari issue of dead ending the rollers into the outer wall. It could variate further with cheek spacing , but the rollers wouldn’t allow it.

But WHY?

Well I’m running an Xtreme bell, and had cut the cheek to a new angle, which pushes back the boss and adds length a tad. So now the boss is longer. Then I had to use floating boss washers between the ramp plate and the vari to snug up the 1/2in belt. But guess what that does? It starts your variation much further along the ramps and it will dead end sooner. So my solution was to chop the bell boss on the lathe to be shorter post threads and cut the double D cutouts with a mini cutoff wheel. I had to use a few extra big washers between the ramp plate and vari nut cuz of the space I cut between the ramp dead ending into the boss and the threads on the boss. Worked great and I’m variating much much further now. Might go about 1.5mm further since I still had to use 2 floating boss washers, but 2 is better than like 8.

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Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Totally normal JBOT /

> L e e wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Or, make the rear pulley float a bit with smol springs.

>

> You'd have to decouple the drive chain moving from it though.

>

> Didn't the MVR have a rear pulley that was 'auto-aligning'?

That’s some cool shit if it did.

Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Totally normal JBOT /

> Graham Motzing wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Man that's wild. I wonder if fudging the taper on the belt would help

> the misalignment thing, like make it intentionally a bit narrower at the

> bottom so it has more lead in?

Yeah I only had the issue after I cut the belt height. So you’re probably right, but a standard BX height is just shitty for variated mopeds. It just works all the components harder throwing around that big hunk of meaty rubber. Vari and bell get hot af with Bx. The belt changes the tune a lot. It wants to move cuz it’s so heavy so u need more spring to stop it. Just a waste of extra forces if you ask me

Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Had this photo. Might be a Naz creation not sure.

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Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Totally normal JBOT /

We moped people are problematic

Re: Mintho needed more variation, new springy thingy

Totally normal JBOT /

Well I rode it since modifying the bells boss and it’s lots of fun. Way more variation, Probably have to add some gearing now but it’s loads of fun to ride in these hills. Belt is higher than I’ve ever had it before. So I call this a win hooray!

One day I wanna add a real moby engine or chopped Puch engine to get a real 42-43mm stroke. That’s what this bike is missing. Low down hill busting torque. But for now it’s pretty pretty prettttty good

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