thanks for that very informative reply. now you explain it i can see the disadvantave of a belt same angle as the cheeks and its reluctance to move outwards. i bought an er86 and found it was no good below 8k rpm even with weights and light springs. i fitted it to a smaller pulley to make it spin faster and it works and bites at low revs on my paloma, until it meets the power of my parmakit motor. ive fitted the original clutch/variator and pulley back on and it seems tame now on take off. cant believe the difference. hardly any spring needed and the belt doesnt slip. im awaiting a stronger spring and couldnt resist 2 x 200N gas struts for £10 off ebay.