Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

Terbo Speghetti /

So everyone loves that first pull when the clutch is nice and cool, and you get just the grip you're expecting, but then by that 4th or 5th light, things aren't as nice.

Is that a temperature problem? If the clutch fluid could stay cooler, wouldn't that help? A pump and oil cooler type thing is what I'm picturing, could use existing drain/fill plugs even

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

That's essentially what this thread turned into: https://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/read.php?7,4464489

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

> Terbo Speghetti wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> So everyone loves that first pull when the clutch is nice and cool, and

> you get just the grip you're expecting, but then by that 4th or 5th

> light, things aren't as nice.

>

> Is that a temperature problem? If the clutch fluid could stay cooler,

> wouldn't that help? A pump and oil cooler type thing is what I'm

> picturing, could use existing drain/fill plugs even

The age old problem....

Jbot ran a pump that spit oil right onto the clutch. It seemed like a huge bitch to do but I believe he had a noticeable improvement.

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

Terbo Speghetti /

That sounds like a more intense version of what I was thinking, I just assumed I would cycle the fluid and let it act like it normally does

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

I think a large problem is that the fluid is flung away from the clutch as well as the fluid heating. So I don't know how much of an improvement just cooling the oil a limited amount would be. But if you had a heat dinked reservoir that had a fair amount of fluid in it, then you just cycle that in and out of the case, maybe that would at least cool it to a point

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

Totally normal JBOT /

Did it and it worked a bit but wasn’t reliable. Electric water pumps and vacuum pumps don’t run long pumping oil. Vacuum sucks (haha) cuz it doesn’t pump when you’re ripping and vacuum drops to nothing.

To do this right, you either need to run a mechanical pump like a malossi water pump or other mechanical pump.... or run an oil sump cooled by water cooling in the sump. Basically a series of water filled cooling tubes inside that would run to an external radiator.

A massive bolt on passive billet heat sink could work as well but not as well as an active cooling setup

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

Stefan Josheski /

maybe you could do it without a pump?

Taking the fuel from the top where it heats up, straight to the rad which would be a bit taller than the engine, from the rad the cold oil goes back down but from the top of the engine case.

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

♣Slew Foot♣ /

Fluid and materials

Less slip is less heat.

Flip pins.

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

Just got this guy off of Amazon.

Going to whip up some wheels on the lathe, run it like a parasitic pump on those kewl euro bro bikes. Tops out at 3k, so 3-1 reduction.

Screenshot_20210925-144132.png

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

Totally normal JBOT /

What’s it gonna run off of?

Belt or chain or?

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

Totally normal JBOT /

oh I get it now that’s a drill pump

That’s a great idea. Perfect for this application and pretty cheap. Just a matter of powering it without a drill. The drill battery won’t last long running all the time.

I think if one were to tie it into a drive chain or off the flywheel that would be fucking baller as hell (edited)

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

I'm thinking make a wheel that bolts onto the end of the crank on the flywheel side then put another pulley on the end of this badboy. Use a belt, like a tape deck

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

Totally normal JBOT /

I think a belt might work but if you get any oil on that belt it might get slippy real quick

Toothed belt wouldn’t I think

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

Probably Fred /

Synthetic motor oil not tranny fluid and asbestos lined clutches and clutch fade is reduced dramatically

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

> Probably Fred wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Synthetic motor oil not tranny fluid and asbestos lined clutches and

> clutch fade is reduced dramatically

Thanks Roff, sensible words as always

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

Got some tiny belts and a pump

How the fuck an I going to attach a pulley to the flywheel. That's kind where I'm at

IMG_20210927_134957794.jpg

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

> * wormdirt * wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Got some tiny belts and a pump

>

> How the fuck an I going to attach a pulley to the flywheel. That's kind

> where I'm at

> >

Just fix a nut to a pulley and screw it on the crankshaft . ;)

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

Vacuum cleaners have some pretty tiny toothed belts and pulleys that might work. Idk what kind of rpms they could handle though.

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

The water pump pulley they sell for Peugeot screws into a puch crank.

Seriously though that's gonna be pulling like half a horse at 3000 rpm, you can test it out yourself with a drill and see how much torque it's pulling. They also aren't designed for an overhung load so when you hook up a belt you gotta watch the radial load.

You could buy a cheap cordless drill and mount it, I've bought the $20 hf drill for a few projects, I made a salt spreader for my ATV with one, it was the cheapest thing that could make battery power turney turn. I just zip ties the trigger down and hooked it up with a switch.

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

Totally normal JBOT /

That pump would have to be as low as possible to work well . Just get a coupler nut for the crank and attach a pulley to that

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

Need to make another trip to the bearing and belt shop. This is a 3L150 v belt for something. Going to need a hilarious amount of tension to work, way more than the shitty pump can handle.

Back to the drawing board. If someone comes up with something in the meantime they can have this pulley

IMG_20210927_205859383.jpg
IMG_20210927_205902593.jpg
16328016573772403980917999720809.jpg

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

M10 x 1 coupling nuts are non existent. McMaster carr doesn't carry them longer than 8mm.

So I ordered a tap, I'll probably just make one out of hex stock if it's cheap at the metal shop.

I don't know why I'm doing this I don't even run/like e50s

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

Totally normal JBOT /

That belt is way too stiff to work without crazy force.

Here’s another idea.

Use a goped 25h chain and a goped front sprocket coupled onto the crank.

Front sprockets run 6 tooth to like 11 tooth.

Then attached to the pump there’s other smallish 25h sprockets up to 25 tooth. The chain is surprisingly strong.

https://www.davesmotors.com/ada-front-drive-goped-sprocket

https://www.vmcchineseparts.com/collections/33cc-43cc-47cc-49cc-2-stroke-engine-parts-1/products/chinese-atv-front-sprocket-25-chain-25t-pocket-bike-scooter-mini-chopper

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

Totally normal JBOT /

But yeah all pumps work better pushing fluid up, not pulling fluid out of a lower chamber.

I’d put it below the engine

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

Tight. My bearing spot has chains and sprockets too. Should be able to work something out. I kept thinking about tape decks and I just couldn't get pulleys and belts out of my mind.

> Totally normal JBOT wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> That belt is way too stiff to work without crazy force.

>

> Here’s another idea.

>

> Use a goped 25h chain and a goped front sprocket coupled onto the crank.

>

> Front sprockets run 6 tooth to like 11 tooth.

>

> Then attached to the pump there’s other smallish 25h sprockets up to 25

> tooth. The chain is surprisingly strong.

>

> https://www.davesmotors.com/ada-front-drive-goped-sprocket

>

> https://www.vmcchineseparts.com/collections/33cc-43cc-47cc-49cc-2-stroke-engine-parts-1/products/chinese-atv-front-sprocket-25-chain-25t-pocket-bike-scooter-mini-chopper

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

Totally normal JBOT /

V Belts that could get oily are a no go, toothed are better.

the goped sprocket thread pitch is 8mmx1.25

if it were me I’d tap some hex rod to the flywheel nut threads then the other half to the goped threads. Then you could just screw it together (edited)

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

It's m8 x 1.25

Basically going to make a round coupler and a chain wrench and the sprocket to screw it in, at least that's the plan right now. This might end up being kinda bitchin

> Totally normal JBOT wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> V Belts that could get oily are a no go, toothed are better.

>

> I’m not sure what the goped sprocket thread pitch is but if it were me

> I’d tap some hex rod to the flywheel nut threads then the other half to

> the goped threads. Then you could just screw it together

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

Interesting. Isn't that a rubber impeller pump like on an outboard? How's that gonna hold up?

Neat idea

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

Dirty30 Dillon /

Remember you need crazy reduction to keep that pump from disintegrating. Your best bet would be to find some small toothed cogs and belt.

I had piles of Martin/Varilite/Robe moving light cogs/belts about a month ago that all got recycled, but they would have functioned perfectly for this.

Re: Single/two speed clutch fade solution ideas?

Pumps rated for 3k, going to run a 3.33:1 gearing.

> Dirty30 Dillon wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Remember you need crazy reduction to keep that pump from disintegrating.

> Your best bet would be to find some small toothed cogs and belt.

>

> I had piles of Martin/Varilite/Robe moving light cogs/belts about a

> month ago that all got recycled, but they would have functioned

> perfectly for this.

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