Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

Howdy!

I finally wrestled the old cylinder off of an old Puch e50 engine I had sitting around. The engine had been sitting in a bucket with Marvel Mystery oil soaking the piston for years! I decided I would rebuild the engine with a buddy of mine. Since I will need a new cylinder and piston and bearings and seals anyway, I thought I might upgrade a bit and go with one of those 70cc kits. If so, which kit from Treatland do you recommend? What additional parts should I get for the engine? Also, I have a few extra carburetors, will a Bing 15 be good for a 77cc kitted Puch Maxi? I was thinking of using this kit: https://www.treatland.tv/puch-70cc-cylinder-treat-kit-p/puch-treat-kit-70cc-the-people.htm along with new seals and bearings. Will I need longer bolts to hold the head on? Anything else? Thanks!

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

Usually comes down to a few questions:

1. What do you want out of the finished bike, performance-wise

2. How mechanically skilled and/or dedicated to the project are you (one can make up for the other)

3. What's the budget

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

Probably Fred /

Not the the treats/kstar kit, it is not spaced properly, It requires a few millimeters of base gasket spacing to keep the piston out of the ports then decking the cylinder or getting a countersunk head and goofy old style fins that you have to put the head on sideways so too much work and looks dumb

This is what you want when back in stock @ Dos cycles

9D85818E-FD7E-4745-8B41-9E1314E2C2A9.jpeg

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

^Yes the kit shown above from Dos Cycles is a really excellent kit and reasonably priced. The Puch 70cc treats for the people Version 1 piston port kit I've also been having surprisingly good results with. You must run synthetic oil at 2% because all newer kits in general are poorly cast nowadays you need max protection especially during break in and you must time low (do not do what I did a year ago on a previous Maxi I used to own and time high because you will run too hot and seize quick) and above all run a temp gauge. Yes the temp gauge is $50 but it can save you and your new kit a lot of grief! Chamfer your ports and gap your ring to around .014" to .015"

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

I agree with the above dos kit for a piston port setup which is like your current cyl. The other option would be from treats and is their 70cc treat reed kit. They have a whole party pack you can get that comes with a pipe and carb upgrade too. Everything you need to get moving again in one package.

Please take time to read up on your engine and some problems others have resolved. Lots of info on here. But when you do get things going be sure to start a thread with any questions or problems you are having. Good luck and have fun!

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

If you just want a slightly better stock replacement cylinder the airsal 65 is perfect out of the box. Zero prep or case match, slap it on and go. Low to mid 40s with good acceleration. I am running a 14 bing with a proma GP and it's a nice quiet around town bike, I would let my 70 year old mom ride it any day of the week. Sips gas and keeps up just fine on an average group ride.

The cheap 70 piston port kits are a little bit pickier about tuning and setup, but paired with a bing and proma circuit/tecno estoril/bullet pipe they will give you a more dramatic kitted moped performance boost, and built right will put you into the 50s. I haven't built one in years so I have no advice on the specific flavors of China/Taiwan no name junk everyone is selling. Most are pretty similar once they are setup right but some take more screwing around.

Pretty much all I build anymore are polinis... They are in a class of their own. Hands down the best all around puch kit. They can be a 45 mph chill ripper or a 70 mph face melting blaster depending on how you set them up. A good beginner setup is the polini with a bing 15 and a tecno estoril, if you do a good job building it with no airleaks and tune it right it will go 50, get there fast, and run for years and years. As you get better at tuning you can keep upgrading with different carbs and pipes to make it whatever you want.

The dark horse is the tomos a35 kits, aka 'treats Reed' they are based on copies of the a35 alukit and they can be rock sold blasters, but you have to do a lot more messing around to make them work. By the time you set them up with reeds, intake, carb etc the price is about the same as the polini and they really need to be ported to run as well. The good news is they are nearly impossible to seize and will run pretty ok even with your tune way off, but you don't want to be that person with 55mph worth of parts going 35 running like shit.

Anything bigger is best left to a future build, not that you can't be successful building a big kit first time, but mistakes are a lot more expensive and there are more tricks to the setup that you will learn working your way up through the ranks

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

Alan Jackson /

piston in the ports doesnt matter.

its the point at which the piston opens the port that matters as this governs your port timing or duration.

if you try spacing your cylinder up 1mm to get the bottom of the ports level with the piston at bdc (which doesnt matter at all) as a side effect for every mm you raise the cylinder you raise the peak power by about 1500 -2000 rpm. obviously depending on stroke and current port height.

aim for duration ie port opening first. some manufacturers ie Husqvarna design their pistons at bdc to be ABOVE the bottom of the ports.

its sometimes beneficial to have the piston above so dont worry. but what is critically important is your duration and the point of opening .

dont take my word for it. google it.

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

Ahh yeah what people are taking about is a bit worse than that, some of the kits, cylinders and Pistons come from different suppliers or different markets where they are made to fit slightly different bikes. When you put them on the 70s era u.s. market bike they don't line up and in severe cases the port timing can be off 2-3 mm. If the kit is something special, super cheap or blasty, it's worth making it work but for a first timer it can turn a 3 hour job into several weeks of custom machining or looking for specific parts.

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

Michael Romco /

Hey guys!

Thanks for all of the advice! I'm not looking to make a racing bike or anything too fast. I bought a Puch Maxi from an estate sale years ago that had a frozen stuck engine. I removed it from the bike and soaked it in Marvel Mystery oil for a few years. Meanwhile, I fixed up the rest of the bike and bought a rebuilt engine from Shelly at Sunday Morning Mopeds. I never got around to putting it on the bike though. A few weeks ago my teenage kids asked if they could ride some of my mopeds so I got a few of them going. One of them that was in storage for about 20 years now looks and rides like a new bike! Anyway, I took the old seized engine out of the oil soaking bucket and banged the piston down through the cylinder and I got the cylinder head off. The piston is shot and the crank arm is stuck so the engine needs to be rebuilt. I figured I would upscale to 70cc to get some more power for transversing hills. Larry invited me to his shop a few years ago when he was still living in NJ and he helped me by rebuilding an e50 engine for one of my other Puchs. God bless MopedLar! That was the only experience I had getting involved rebuilding one. Another moped buddy of mine with a lot of experience is going to help me with this old engine. I just need to get the right parts. I'm looking forward to rebuilding this one! BTW...I just placed a big order for parts from Puchshop.de. They were the only shop that sells new original style Magura twist type handlebar throttles with the brake light switch holes. They have lots of other Puch parts too that even with the high shipping costs and exchange rate still comes out cheaper than most US moped parts vendors. I am also looking at Denny's moped parts. I only mentioned Treatland originally because I just know they are going to have a Labor Day sale and I'm making up a list! Thanks again!

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

Treatland, dos cycles, Denny, are all great, we are lucky to have such awesome vendors in the community.

It's best to think about it as a whole system, start with what you want it to do, and go from there. Since there are only so many parts, over the years people have kinda figured out what parts make a good system. If you put a huge pipe on a small kit it won't run right, so stick to something proven. Pipe and carb are just as important as the kit, sometimes more so.

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

A tecno circuit pipe is a great exhaust system for a stock or mild kit builds on a Puch. Good low end so you can operate safely in stop and go riding and decent top speed. A proma is also a good choice but it will top out early compared to the circuit. The circuit only costs $80 from treats and matches the Puch cylinder perfectly and it clears the pedals

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

Michael Romco /

> Thomas Peffer Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> A tecno circuit pipe is a great exhaust system

No thanks! I don't like that bulgy look to it.

puch-tecno-circuit-pipe-pinto-2T.jpg

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

Alan Jackson /

> Michael Romco Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Thomas Peffer Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > A tecno circuit pipe is a great exhaust system

>

> No thanks! I don't like that bulgy look to it.

lol your motor might like it though......

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

> Michael Romco Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Thomas Peffer Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > A tecno circuit pipe is a great exhaust system

>

> No thanks! I don't like that bulgy look to it.

Part and parcel to 2 stroke exhausts dude

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

It's so bulbous!

There is a stock looking puch pipe too, if you aren't looking for all out performance they are probably pretty good.

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

Just keep the stock exhaust. You can get into the low 40s with no expansion chamber. I built one the other day and it is so good, I almost refuse to put big pipes on people’s “stock” maxi’s. Unless you’re tryin to burn up clutches and beat your friends to the top of that hill it really is the best. I can’t stand loud, dragging pipes that get in the way anymore.

For the kit I pretty much always go for the airsal 44; it is very nice and torquey, and assuming you have a 1.5 or 2hp low torque maxi you can use the stock head, and it doesn’t feel anemic with the original carb. For preparing the cylinder there is very little to do with this one, I usually just plug the decompression hole with an m6 set screw and run a bit of sandpaper around the shape edges of the piston, but it does have plenty of potential if you want to get crazy porting. My only complaint is cylinder plating is very thin so be careful if you’re doing any filing or a pit a rotary tool to the ports that you don’t chip it.

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

if you have a freespirit can the polini fit with the frame ?

or somelse

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

@daniel, my proma GP will fight u!

Yeah I really like this little kit, took me awhile to get the jetting on the bing right since it is jetted more like stock cylinder. Normally you're trying to get the bing as lean as you can in the mid/low with a huge main, I'm at a 74 main and could probably do a 72. I was actually thinking I might try an SHA since it's such a flat fuel delivery. It still feels a bit soft in the lower mid right where the clutch grabs but going up a click on the needle wrecks my nice low putt putt idle and doesn't really help.

I could probably put a bunch more timing back in it too, can't even remember what it's time at, set it conservative for break in and never went back to bump it up.

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

Aaron Ward /

Airsal/Circuit

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

Graham, .. Starting to work more with Puchs. I have a reliable Airsal 65 installed on a Magnum XK, 15 bing, Techno Estoril and have a good stock Magnum E50 I'll be building for next year. What else can you recommend for the Pollini build you described as far as porting, crank, clutch, bell, gears, head, intake, etc? 50-60% of our riding is open road at 35-55 mph with the rest being stop-n-go in the city. My Malossi LC Hobbits can rip in all those conditions NP but the 65 XK is a challenge for an E50 novice like me when trying to balance good take off and hill climbing with higher end cruising. Durability is a priority as many of our weekly rides cover 40-60 miles+.

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

To bad the old cast 65 Metra is not around anymore. Those were tough kits. Pair one of those up to estroil and a 15 Bing and have a nice runner. The older kstars were pretty good also. What is up with the new ones?

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

Steve, the Big thing with the polini is the pipe, the kit almost is secondary to the pipe, that's why I like polini so much now that I feel like I better understand them, you can make them do almost anything with the right pipe.

I would start the build around a crank pipe or a modified tecno estoril, or an MLM but really fuck all that and just get your crank pipe on order. Next ya gotta keep it cool, I (obviously) like the mopedfactory head that I sell though dos cycles, or you can buy direct from me (same price, dos just probably faster shipping) you will also need a retarding CDI. You can set the timing low with points like ken says but then your midrange sucks. I am running the parmakit box on an A55 stator but there is a really good thread on this just posted a couple weeks ago. I would say hpi mini rotor or parmakit box are the most well documented, but anything that retards reliably.

I'm running a modified 2 shoe clutch, but I'm finally starting to hit the limit on that, my bike is close to 60 now with the 18x40 and the clutch is hating life riding dubs. I am gonna try the pavo shoes for next season since I've seen Lee's bike out a few times and it fuckin rips.

I haven't tried a 4 petal with the bigger carb yet on the crankpipe but Ryan's and Nick's are fast AF. I think it might be necessary to truly break 60 but I like the simplicity and tuneability of the phbg 19 with the 2 petal. I have tried all the reeds and like the Athena rubber coated with a spacer under it to clear the casting. I think anything from a SHA to a TM24 will work good on a polini, but the phbg is just what I had laying around. I have a polini CP I've been meaning to throw on there, maybe next season.

Re: Which 70cc Kit From Treatland Should I buy?

thank you for the rec. Totally getting an airsal when it becomes time to upgrade my maxi

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