Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

Jason ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) /

Is it possible to run these 2 in 1 Ducati CDI box/coil units with the kinetic style CDI that fits on Vespa points cases? Anyone tried?

I really like the idea of the CDI box and coil being one unit, it cleans things up. But I have no clue if this would be compatible. Thanks in advance.

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

Dirty30 Dillon /

Big old Negative on this one.

Ducati coil requires a pickup. If you're looking for all in one, I believe the Parmakit should work just dandy.

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

I actually think you can, though I don’t know the wiring combination. Kinetics have 2 wires from the coil and the box has 4 wires; I don’t see any reason it wouldn’t work.

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

Dirty30 Dillon /

The ducati box requires ground, load, and trigger pulse, green, white and red wires. The forth slot on the box is a spare ground, and on alot of oem apps it's not even included.

You could def play around, by switching the two wires round and running an aux ground, but I'm fairly certain the kinetic coil just has a tap on either end of the coil, sensing the collapsing field, not by a low power pulse signal like the vespa cdi.

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

I mean I have a box for my CDI cases and my motor with The Kenitic CDI is still in the frame. I could try it but I Really don’t want to FRY my CDI box.....

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

Yeah I'm pretty sure it won't work, I bought one of those ducati cdi by mistake thinking that it fit the late model puch ducati (also 1 wire) and it doesn't.

Parmakit box is the way to go, but I don't know if you'll still be able to time it with a key, haven't specifically fucked with the kinetic CDI

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

On that I’m not even going to risk burning it up.

The research I have done on the Kenitic CDI is that some Kenetics had the crank keyway in the correct place and other ones had the keyway about 40* Advanced from the vespa position. So if you put a Vespa crank in a kenitic and use the keyway it won’t fire in the correct position or Kenetic CDI on a Vespa it will be firing after TDC. The whole thing is a nightmare. So big picture is it is a crap shoot. After messing with Kenetic CDI stuff and not being able to crack the puzzle I am done......

Oh and another thing I got mine to fire in the correct position and running great, It just has low spark at lower RPMs which makes starting a pain in the asssssssss.

Points > Kenitic CDI

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

> EH FCC of the QCB Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Oh and another thing I got mine to fire in the correct position and

> running great, It just has low spark at lower RPMs which makes starting

> a pain in the asssssssss.

>

Maybe weak magnets or possibly too much air gap ?

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

Kinetic isn't a CDI, it's a TCI. Different sort of arrangement. Instead of firing off a pulse from a trigger coil it fires off of the polarity reversing.

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

Jason ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) /

Thanks ya'll I had never heard of the parmakit box. Still combines the coil and cdi box so it should work perfectly for me.

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

Yeah it's got more to do with whether there is a trigger or not.

The most common trigger-less systems that all swap boxes are

Tomos a35 (static/RL)

Kinetic (static no RL)

Parmakit (retarding no RL)

Ktm cobra cdi from China (static no RL)

80cc motorized bicycle CDI from China (advances and prone to failure)

There is also the puch ducati and a derbi (ducati, motoplat? ) That are similar but not common in USA

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

The Ducati unit that malossi used to make for Peugeot and mbk are adaptations from piaggio 2t bikes, I believe the px150 stator is the cheapest one to search. You can get the “kokusan” stator from puch shop now, which is one of the China clones made to fit puchs for about $200. I have bought them in the past on eBay for $30 to revive dead stators and they work surprisingly well with all of the rest of the stock parts.

Ok back to the kinetic cdi. How would you be hooking this ignition up to a parma box? The kinetic cdi does have both a signal and power wire, so I’m confused why you all think it’s a normal one wire ignition like tomos a35.

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

Dirty30 Dillon /

> Daniel '' Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> The Ducati unit that malossi used to make for Peugeot and mbk are

> adaptations from piaggio 2t bikes, I believe the px150 stator is the

> cheapest one to search. You can get the “kokusan” stator from puch shop

> now, which is one of the China clones made to fit puchs for about $200.

> I have bought them in the past on eBay for $30 to revive dead stators

> and they work surprisingly well with all of the rest of the stock parts.

>

> Ok back to the kinetic cdi. How would you be hooking this ignition up to

> a parma box? The kinetic cdi does have both a signal and power wire, so

> I’m confused why you all think it’s a normal one wire ignition like

> tomos a35.

On the Kinetic ignition, there is no separate pulse signal. If you look at the diagram, this is evident.

kin.JPG

The white pole goes to the CDI box, and than straight to the ignition switch, to ground, so the killswitch pulls the ground from the ignition coil to stop spark.

Red would be the feed single wire to the Parmakit box, white goes to the ground prong/common.

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

> Daniel '' Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> The Ducati unit that malossi used to make for Peugeot and mbk are

> adaptations from piaggio 2t bikes, I believe the px150 stator is the

> cheapest one to search. You can get the “kokusan” stator from puch shop

> now, which is one of the China clones made to fit puchs for about $200.

> I have bought them in the past on eBay for $30 to revive dead stators

> and they work surprisingly well with all of the rest of the stock parts.

>

I don't know what the new knockoff ones are, but this is the one that was on late model maxis and some other euro bikes late 80s, early 90s, it's a 1-wire trigger less style

https://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/read.php?2,3997210

I bought a 'ducati' cdi box thinking it was this one, but it's not, even though the plastic housing is almost identical, it's a trigger style that I guess is common on vespa scooters but I dunno.

Declan sent me a really cool adjustable retard module that goes to that ducati cdi for secret Santa a couple weeks ago, but it's for a trigger style module so it's irrelevant to this discussion.... Except just to state that there are trigger and trigger less ducati ignitions that are molded into the exact same plastic box.

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

This is the trigger style ducati, looks nearly identical to the one posted above but it ain't

https://h5.pt.aliexpress.com/item/32951524380.html

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

Ah, now I see why that's confusing, the late model euro vespa CDI is a trigger style, that is a cdi box for vespa in the original post, has nothing to do with kinetic and won't work on points cases.

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

Where does the white wire go?

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

> Daniel '' Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Where does the white wire go?

It's just the other leg of the floated ignition coil.

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

the kinetic set up works with a 2041

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

woah, really? you've actually hooked that up and gotten it working? I've never actually worked on an kinetic cdi so i could definitely be wrong, just going on what others have said that the parmakit box works wired the way Dillon says, white to ground, and that would agree with the diagram as its drawn.

i mean, it could be like the pietcards where its a double wrapped coil, the wiring diagram is wrong, and it just so happens that grounding the white wire doesn't make any difference?

i dunno, i'm interested to learn, TBH i've never got my hands on one. if someone has one handy a DMM could prove it really easy, just see if both wires have continuity to ground and different resistances, would prove its like the Pietcard.

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

In the diagram the white wire doesn’t go to ground, it goes to the box and then to the kill just like the 2013 box. So the box blue to stator white spliced into to the kill switch and Box Grey to stator red and box red to ht coil, basically wire it just like with the e50 cdi of the stars.

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

Dirty30 Dillon /

My only kinetic setup rn is in a chassis, otherwise I would pull the coil and give it a DMM.

I would be surprised if the kinetic coil has a trigger coil in the core, but I guess I've seen weirder things.

Re: Kinetic CDI (Vespa) with Ducati Style CDI/Coil?

Daniel, just to be clear, you are saying that 100% you have tested this and got it working with a trigger box?

The diagram shows the coil having a single winding with both leads floated. The red and white are the two legs of the coil. Grounding the white makes it like any other single lead coil, they just choose to float it either maybe for lights on some models? Or just for reliability.

The pietcard coils have two windings that are both grounded to the frame of the coil... I know this for a fact, one winding is the power winding and one winding is the trigger winding and if you get lucky it just kinda happens to work with a 2 magnet flywheel.

IMG_20210105_083937.jpg
« Go to Topics — end of thread

Want to post in this forum? We'd love to have you join the discussion, but first:

Login or Create Account