Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Realized the starter bell has just a pressed in center, so that needs some reinforcement welds if you're going to weld the variator shaft directly to it.

Pressed center.

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Stich welded center.

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Other side offset stich welded.

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Thats all I got done in the limited time I had today. Just need to weld on the variator shaft and the cheek posts to complete the whole starter plate removal.

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

Right on. I’m going to try that flat clutch plate mod with hobbit shoes or similar tomorrow.....

Or maybe starter shoes, depends what I find.

It’ll be like the idea with the diy clutch pulley nik posted but on the front.

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Yeah this convert to a shoe style clutch idea is awesome, between jbot and Jake I can't wait to see what you guys come up with.

Less cool but the roller guide showed up yesterday.

Just for reference:

Rollers are 12w by 15 dia

10g stock weight

The plastic guide is just a scrap of trash plastic, I'm sure I can 3d print one that will be as strong or stronger, maybe go to the standard gy6 style 14*16 roller?

I'm not going too crazy with this build, just stock ported, but at least there is something for tuning the weight besides just the stupid balls. If it turns out I have the wrong style of vari to run the rollers, I guess I'll have to figure out how to mod that too

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

Btw Jake, if the bell wobbles a bit once it’s welded to the hub it can be bent true pretty easily. It’s very thin and flexible, like carlesses peener

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

> Graham Motzing Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Yeah this convert to a shoe style clutch idea is awesome, between jbot

> and Jake I can't wait to see what you guys come up with.

>

> Less cool but the roller guide showed up yesterday.

>

> Just for reference:

>

> Rollers are 12w by 15 dia

>

> 10g stock weight

>

> The plastic guide is just a scrap of trash plastic, I'm sure I can 3d

> print one that will be as strong or stronger, maybe go to the standard

> gy6 style 14*16 roller?

>

> I'm not going too crazy with this build, just stock ported, but at least

> there is something for tuning the weight besides just the stupid balls.

> If it turns out I have the wrong style of vari to run the rollers, I

> guess I'll have to figure out how to mod that too

12x15!?

can you squeeze a 13x16 in there? thats normal, oh well if I gotta drill em out I'll drill em out!

Mine should be here today at some point, im at work so they might be sitting on my porch, gonna play with it Friday for sure

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

Did a jailing hobbit clutch to moby clutch combination. I think it’s going to be great.

Low stall now, need to add preload by moving posts and maybe a second spring. You can do anything when you have big muscles and a brain that folds space like a fucking boss

So here’s a fucking story in pictures, clutchy boi

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Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /
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Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

Spring bolts inside the shoes are threaded into the shoe, then the nut is there on the other side just to lock it in place

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Damnit Jbot! Just as I'm finally making the effort to catch up to your early mods, you have to go and make it more complicated!

I love it. This is good stuff.

Today I finished welding in the shaft to the bell.

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And also welded in the variator stop posts.

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Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

More pics of starter plate removed. Shaft and posts welded in.

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Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

Hate to break it to you but that raised area inside the bell under the pins is a no go.

Will rub the new clutch causing destruction

It can be raised but no more than like 2mm.

Flush would be best because there’s shit spinning around in there

You’ll bolt together and then it’ll hit if it’s very raised (edited)

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Currently there are no new clutch bolts/pins or springs spinning in that area since all the clutch function is still on the outside drum. I see what you are saying, that the backside of the cheek stop pins would likely need to be cut down at least a bit if there was more happening around it.

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

You’re not going to add the springs?

Or are you gonna do something different with a clutch? Basically any higher rev clutch is going to require some stuff in there. I think the stock clutch plate will hit that area without anything extra added. Assemble it and see. Both of my versions required that area to be shaved down close to flush.

I’ll make some videos today to tempt you to the righteous path (edited)

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

I feel like you could belt sand a 13*16 roller to fit but you might loose some range? Since it's in the same gap as the steel balls, it should be the same dia, but you can always machine the cheeks... I think the mating part is that big chunk of cast steel, right?

I am not touching this until my TSM gets done but y'all killing me. I just want to dig in now.

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

Lightened the hobbit arms, added a second spring (brake springs haha)

Fuck yeah it’s a monster now. I could go way higher stall but this is where this engine needs it. Smells like burning clutch and will continue to until the pad wears into the bells contour.

This will be much more reliable than those leaf springs. Both clutches work but this is a mega ultra clutch

BIG SUCCESS

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(edited)

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

Wasnt high enough lol it is now tho.

Some blue Vespa springs I think? Polini maybe and some 1500 scooter springs

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Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Awesome work Jbot! This is great because it still can be done using stock moped parts which is key to keeping in line with the Moped GP rules for the Stock modified class.

Since I don't have any hobbit shit anymore I'm on the hunt for a stock hobbit clutch now. Planning to build mine to use the GY6/Hammer/Jammer length springs since I have tons of them in various strengths. Then I'll be able to tune in the stall just how I want it.

I see the Jailing clone on aliexpress for $20 but its $27 shipping and weeks to arrive. I hope to find a real one locally for less.

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Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

Well ok so here’s the deal.

The new clutch tune with double strong springs just slipped and didn’t go. The combo with the brake springs and Vespa springs work ok, just a tad too low. Problem is I have to tune to that heavier clutch now to the vari, it acts like heavier weights.

I also notice a lil vibration way up top so I’m going to do some things to try and fix. I’ll also be lightening the setup a lot.

I switched back to the Moby clutch with the hooked spring on the end of the leaf springs and I like that better so far. Slips better, it’s amazing. The shoes do wear out though over time with a high stall. Personally I’d do that as it’s 10x easier

I need some new stock moby clutch leaf springs with the pads. Does treats have that?

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Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

Treats sells new shoes so this will be easy to do the first version. I’m going to get some so my springs don’t get eaten by the bell. https://www.treatland.tv/motobecane-stock-clutch-PAD-n-RIVET-set-p/mbk-clutch-pads-n-rivets.htm

And if you do decide to go with hobbit shoes,

I think you have the skills to just make some posts and drill them/weld into the face plate instead of cutting up a clutch. It just makes more sense. But honestly do the original version. It’s better I think. At least so far

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

So for lightening this clutch,

Does a cut off torch warp shit really bad or not?

That would make quick work of making this clutch much lighter pre balancing

There’s no way I wanna drill holes in this thickass plate. Fuck that

I want to make this clutch like swiss cheese

After I chop it up, I’m planning on doing a fun balancing technique I used to do.

You stuff a rod that’s close to the id of the center, tape it a bit then stuff it in.

Then I have these parallel rails that I roll the setup on. The heavy spot always ends up on the bottom. Then I take away material from that area and roll again. Sometimes it’s obvious, other times it’s harder to find. It would be better with the shaft floating on bearings but this works.

Just takes a lil time.

Anyone have any other good techniques to balance? Is there any small balancing machines out there?

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

Just weighed these bad bois

Stock modded leaf spring clutch—-588gr

Hobbit added shoe clutch ————624gr

Shouldn’t be too hard to get at least 40 gr off of the hobbity version. Gonna fuck with that today.

With the state of the world right now I really find peace in playing with stupid bullshit, with no ego to get in the way if something doesn’t work. Just try to make it work you know?

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Yeah that's great, also has me thinking someone could just make the stock style flappy shoes, but out of a stiffer spring steel. You would have to get the bend just right, but a spring company might be able to do it.

Does the one-way bearing mod work with the av7 vari? I don't think I really will go this deep into my moby, I just bought it to proto that head and I'm planning on selling it as a restored stock+ bike in the spring so I don't want to get too crazy.

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

Made a balance jig you can really feel.

Wow it’s off. I hold the 1/2 case in my hand and can feel the wobble

But it’s the plate i cut. Didn’t put it in the lathe after I chopped off the perpendicular ridge.

I can see a thicker side as it wobbles when I spin it fast. So I guess I’ll lighten it and then put it on the lathe to balance that bullshit out after the fact

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Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

Got it good! Just as good as the other clutch now. So psyched. I did mixed lower engagement springs rather than a real strong and then weak.

Also did that lathe balancing (You can use a puller as a mandrel for the lathe) and found a few heavy spots spinning with my moby crank jig. Ground the heavy bits down a bit. Need a new bearing for the tester tho. Was a bit too crunchy when I put it in.

What I did notice is that both clutches have heavy spots, I bet every used stock clutch plate could use a turning.

I cut it’s size down too, bigger gap between the plate and the bell, probably better for cooling.

So this has been fun. I’ll try to balance both clutches more, but for now it’s as good as the other version.

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Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

Tried n true.

Was wobbly af before this

(edited)

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

Not sure any leaf spring could resist inertia enough to rev out without being hooked on the end

Well av7 uses an open bearing, not a press in style bearing. I bet you make it happen though

Graham Motzing Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Yeah that's great, also has me thinking someone could just make the

> stock style flappy shoes, but out of a stiffer spring steel. You would

> have to get the bend just right, but a spring company might be able to

> do it.

>

> Does the one-way bearing mod work with the av7 vari? I don't think I

> really will go this deep into my moby, I just bought it to proto that

> head and I'm planning on selling it as a restored stock+ bike in the

> spring so I don't want to get too crazy.

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Update I got my new cage roller, annnnnd I’m disappointed

It comes with 3 weights, each weighing 8.5g so 25.5g total, compared to a stock 3 roller which is 30g it’s not bad, compared to a 2 ball set up, 20g, or my 2 ball set up which is 15g, again using 2 Peugeot starter balls it’s heavy

And yes the weights are unique, treats does not have any lighter versions, so I tried to drill them out, the brass gets hot and spins insides the sheath, no dice

But I had some standard weights that were all plastic, so I tossed them on my bench grinder to make em fit...

They were 3.4g to start with, so I modified (which wouldn’t fit), you’d be looking at 10.2g total, buuuut when I shaved them all down they became 3g’s each, so 9g total, that shit was waaaaay to light! I couldn’t get past half variation

So I’m back to my 2 ball set up, and it’s looking more and more like, if you are gonna stick with the stock variator, Jbot’s method of madness is the best choice.

HOWEVER, at 15g, modded pads (cut down to about 1/4 of the original size), using Rebel’s spring stiffening technique, no starter arms, and my variator lightened, my bike takes off very well for street riding, it’s a vast improvement over stock, like so good it makes me not want to use an er2/er3 since it can still start easily, and these mods are much simpler then what Jbot is doing, again not as effective, but very good.

BUT for racing all of this seems pointless now that you can use clutch pullies in the stock class...

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Seems pointless for them to call it a 'stock class' if you can use shyte that is not a modified piece of stock equipment...

> Toledo Riot Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> BUT for racing all of this seems pointless now that you can use clutch

> pullies in the stock class...

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

> Rebel Moby Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Seems pointless for them to call it a 'stock class' if you can use shyte

> that is not a modified piece of stock equipment...

>

> > Toledo Riot Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > BUT for racing all of this seems pointless now that you can use clutch

>

> > pullies in the stock class...

Wait Serously?!? I always thought it had to be stock equipment. Yikes. Not so stock. I guess I never looked at the rules that close.

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

I think it’s only if you make the clutch pulley out of stock parts which is totally doable

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