Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

So just like my 102 post, here is some good info on tuning your stock Moby variator

I have been building french bikes for a few years and tend to go straight to an ER2/ER3, this is because I was unable to find any real information on the stock variator!

Unlike all the helpful threads and Wiki posts about the stock Peugeot 103 variator, the Wiki here is full of a lot of dead links and whispers

So after scrapping together all the info I could find on the far reaches of the internet, and talking to some old heads like the lovely Rebel Moby, I put into practice and explain all the mods I could find!

What were the results? check out the video below!

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Great video indeed

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

The best mod is removing starter shoes and the giant steel plate, and welding the bell to the hub.

Then run only 2 leaf springs with springs holding the ends down. Easy 6k engagement.

Honestly the best. It’s launchy af

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /
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This has been working for years.

Still would qualify for stock right?

Can you rope start stock bikes and still be following the rules?

I went back to holding the leaf springs with countersunk nuts/bolts. Holding it with weld just cracks eventually

https://mopedarmy.com/forums/read.php?7,3279875,page=1 (edited)

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Yussss Jbot! Keep it coming, I’d love to see all the hacks people have came up with!

I had a REALLY hard time finding any info on the stock variator, let’s use this thread to turn that around

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

No one else I know has done this but it’s easily comparable to a Puch or hobbit clutch as far as performance. It’s like instant power.

Only do this mod if you’re ready to win (edited)

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

Oh you have to weld some vari pins into the bell because they were in the starter shoe plate you had to cut off

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Sweet, I'll have to check out the video later but I'm pretty stoked to try the tune-able roller guide plate.

I dunno if you get into it on the video but shimming the mousetrap spring will let you fine tune the variator-used to be a big deal when your only option was a 4 ball guide with 2 balls in it, but the rollers should allow for better weight tuning.

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

> Graham Motzing Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Sweet, I'll have to check out the video later but I'm pretty stoked to

> try the tune-able roller guide plate.

>

> I dunno if you get into it on the video but shimming the mousetrap

> spring will let you fine tune the variator-used to be a big deal when

> your only option was a 4 ball guide with 2 balls in it, but the rollers

> should allow for better weight tuning.

Yes, I do show how to make a shim for it, and it is imo the best stock mod. Its not in the video but later that night we tried it on a kitted av7 with an ER3, and it was worlds better then just the stock spring

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

This is great. I love to see modded stock stuff.

The drill press on a round ball is great.

If your stuck with the 4 ball guide and not a ramp plate, he Ceramic balls from MC Mastercar have been great for tuning the 4 ball guide. I can’t remember but I think one is 1/2 or a little less than 1/2 the weight of a metal ball. So you have more capabilities to tune variation instead of just running two metal bearings.

This makes me want to mess with a stock Moby setup again. (edited)

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

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Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

If you use the roller guide make sure to use the ramp plate with two ears or you will flat spot the rollers

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Yeah, nice, I've never built an av10 but stock ported or kitted av7 I've always had pretty good luck with the stock vari with the 4/2 ball guide. A few washers on the spring either way to fine tune.

I like the way a well tuned av7 rides, it will take most basic ass bikes off the line and kicks down to a nice low cruising gear on top. I think the roller guide is gonna be a game changer, mine just got delivered a couple hours ago but that bike is about 4 deep in the project queue, so it will probably be a few months before I get to actually try it out

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

> niklaus _ Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> If you use the roller guide make sure to use the ramp plate with two

> ears or you will flat spot the rollers

Is that an av10 part? Aftermarket? Does not look familiar. I'm gonna try the ramp guide on a stock av7 and figure out whatever it takes to make it work. If I had to get those ears cut it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Thanks for re-igniting this interest in me. I guess. Damnit. I had absolutely no plans to touch my moby and now here I am taking apart the variator because I couldn't exactly remember what all I had done. I really haven't messed with this bike that much since all the mods I did in 2014-15. I only occasionally get it running to race at MopedGP, just a distant afterthought to my other race bike.

Appreciate the shout-outs in the vid! Can't take any credit though, I definitely had only half assed followed what Jbot did. Back when he was modding the moby variator in that thread "Slipper clutch lever on Moby stock clutch" I had just started messing with my moby and following along. I also did the stock moby aux ports from "Hey Dummy! Let's get all Aux ex' n shit"

Between Jbot and Rebel Moby is how I did all my moby mods. I had decided to keep all 4 clutch pads and cut them down by about a half inch and tack them much further up the sides to control their travel. This was following Rebels method of adding a rivet, except tack welding was much easier and modifiable to me. It slips... ok. I'm now considering removing 2 pads completely to see what happens, and from there may explore the springs like Jbot did if I'm still not satisfied.

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I removed the starter shoes but had stopped short of removing the whole plate assembly and welding in the shaft and posts. I think I'll do that now.

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While I'm at it I plotted out 6 - 1" holes to be cut to lighten the clutch drum.

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Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

I'm also running the McMaster-Carr ceramic balls in a 4 ball roller.

1/2" Nonporous Alumina Ceramic Ball

.5Ceramicmobyvarioballs.jpg

They are suuuper light but seem to work alright on my setup that only moves at high rpm. Definitely dont need to do any stiffening spring mods with this little bit of weight, the stock spring does fine.

20201123_204943[1].jpg

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Pussy Licker420 /

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

> Graham Motzing Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > niklaus _ Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > If you use the roller guide make sure to use the ramp plate with two

>

> > ears or you will flat spot the rollers

>

> Is that an av10 part? Aftermarket? Does not look familiar. I'm gonna

> try the ramp guide on a stock av7 and figure out whatever it takes to

> make it work. If I had to get those ears cut it wouldn't be the end of

> the world.

no I mean you need two ears on each post. 4 ears total. you don't want the ramp plate to rotate backwards. Early variators had only 2 ears total, those wont work with the roller guide.

that is a stock av7/av10 variator, they are the same (well, av10 variator because of the thinner fixed sheave. but late model av7 motobecane came with this too.) Stock sheaves and stock hub bolted to a flange on the front with the crank taper. sold by bidalot around 1985 and came with different size balls 12.5-13mm and washer to keep the smaller weights from falling out.

same idea as the second picture.

no clutch function. with the right weights and reverse launch lever you don't need it. but this stuff was for the track anyway before people started putting peugeot variators on mbk, and the good aftermarket mbk variators are basically peugeot variators without a clucth

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Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

If you weld the bell to the hub, add a lil steel shim material before you weld to center the fit between the bell and hub to keep everything true

I’m gonna ride that moby tomorrow.

Been awhile. I changed tire profiles and have to down gear cuz the new tires are taller than my worn out gazelle I had on the rear

That bike is a whole lotta crazy.

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

same idea, home made..

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Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

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Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Pussy Licker420 /

> niklaus _ Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> >

>

Hahah homemade clutch pulley? So cool

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Where is warisesi on this thread?

Thanks Nik, that explains a lot, it's been awhile since I had one of these apart and I don't remember, I'm going to be working on a 1978 50v, guess I'll find out when I get it opened up if that's 'early' or 'late'

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

Haha awesome.

No pedals tho, right?

Was thinking of doing a similar pug version of that starter shoe as clutch shoe to replace the disc clutch. But I’ve never had a Peugeot.

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

> weldwizard Jake Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I'm also running the McMaster-Carr ceramic balls in a 4 ball roller.

>

> 1/2" Nonporous Alumina Ceramic Ball

>

> They are suuuper light but seem to work alright on my setup that only

> moves at high rpm. Definitely dont need to do any stiffening spring mods

> with this little bit of weight, the stock spring does fine.

first off let me say I appreciate your method of explanation, but even with those ceramic balls, aren't you still a bit heavy? I see you are running 4 balls, 2 stock and 2 of the ceramic, the stock balls are 10g each, meaning 20g total in your vario, before the weight of the other balls, I think that the 7.5g balls im running (stock Peugeot variator starter balls) are to heavy, weighing in at 15g as Im only running 2, once I get my roller cage, I think my magic number will be 12g

OR are your other balls just dirty and all 4 are ceramic? CLEAN YOUR BALLS JAKE

that said I think I am also gonna tack weld those plates, Im waiting for my roller cage to arrive, as I see Graham's has already arrived, it seems USPS does not like me as much as him! once I get that I'll be digging into it some more, hopefully Friday as I have most of this week off (edited)

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Yeah dude, I live in a 'red' area so my USPS wasn't 'de-joyed' ... I think all your mail just gets pushed off a barge into lake erie at this point.

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

> Toledo Riot Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> first off let me say I appreciate your method of explanation, but even

> with those ceramic balls, aren't you still a bit heavy? I see you are

> running 4 balls, 2 stock and 2 of the ceramic

> OR are your other balls just dirty and all 4 are ceramic? CLEAN YOUR

> BALLS JAKE

Yeah, them balls are just dirty. All of them are ceramic. There is a thin layer of moly grease over all the rolling spinny bits, I cleaned one ball off to show that it was the white ceramic.

I don't recall how much the ceramic balls weigh, that would be good info for ya. I gave my my dad my drug scale because he smokes more weed than I do. I'll have to try to remember to bring them to work to weigh.

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

> niklaus _ Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> >

>

I would really like to get a write up on how you did this btw

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Totally normal JBOT /

Blue scooty springs pics

The only thing with thicker springs is you gotta recess the hole on the leaf spring pad so the clutch spring doesn’t get ground down by the clutch bell. Not too hard, I’d prefer a recessed solution I haven’t come up with yet.

But it would be super cool to just throw some modded hobbit or derbi shoes or moby starter shoes on the flat part of the clutch plate by adding a few pivot pins and stops and get rid of the leaf springs entirely. That would be my next thing. Though this works great. I’m in the power in 1 second on flats

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(edited)

Re: Motobecane Stock Variator Tuning: what you need to know

Started on removal of the starter clutch plate in a quick half hour after work.

Removed the ears with chop saw.

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Roughed it down and close to round on a belt sander.

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Finished it nice and round on the lathe.

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