Electronic sequence shifter?

Just found this on the internet.

It appears to be an electronic system to turn your scooter/moped into a shifter bike? They work on horizontal minarellis so they probably also work on Derbi's.

I don't know anything about this or why you'd want it, but i thought i'd share.

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

Translation of description :

"Sequential electronic shifting for your scooter.

Makes it possible to shift gears with your scooter.

You can set the number of gears yourself with this system.

Advice is to choose a maximum of 3 gears with a scooter that is not tuned up.

It is different with heavily tuned scooters, here me you can go up to 5 switching options.

This system can be mounted on all Minarelli horizontal engines.

The set comes with installation manual.

Note: only for horizontal horizontal"

€ 36,12 =$42.41 .

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

Dirty30 Dillon /

That's pretty dope. it's like a stepped launch lever for dual variated. Probably want the lightest contra possible to keep the stepper motor alive, but pretty cool.

I wouldn't buy one other than to fuck with it, as a properly tuned CVT is way more effecient, but it's definitely neat.

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

> Dirty30 Dillon Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I wouldn't buy one other than to fuck with it, as a properly tuned CVT

> is way more effecient, but it's definitely neat.

Yeah it's more efficient but I keep my DT50 around cause sometimes you just want to slam through 6 gears to hit 40mph ya know

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

Totally normal JBOT /

I’ve done this manually with cable shifter rods and variation brakes on variated mopeds.

It’s a thrill.

I usually run 3 locked gears as well.

On heavily tuned high revving engines,

It’s an advantage. You can often go faster via rev acceleration vs roller acceleration.

I’ve experienced it and wouldn’t believe it if I didn’t actually experience it

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

hah, damn, that's pretty neat. my first assumption is like, why have a variator if you want shifting gears, like in theory it should work better to just have a well tuned variator, no? But it's still clever and practically I bet it's pretty fun. neat. I like Jbot's approach

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

Holy shit you found it. I've been looking for that again for like 2 years. I felt crazy like it didnt exist and I had imagined it.

There used to be video on youtube of one of these things working on a scoot. Sounded neat.

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

Well I bought it....hopefully it arrives in the mail. I’m going to build a hobbit death bike (edited)

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

Totally normal JBOT /

This might be the first thing you’ve done that I have interest in. Interested in seeing how it works. Isnt it meant for a scooter sized boss tho?

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

So that replaces a variatior? And it opens or closes to simulate gears?

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

> Wesley Ambrosini Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> So that replaces a variatior? And it opens or closes to simulate gears?

Yea, I think the kit comes with an outside cheek that has 6 different static positions.

It don’t know how to explain it....

To be-honest it doesn’t look like the best quality in the world

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

Dirty30 Dillon /

> Wesley Ambrosini Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> So that replaces a variatior? And it opens or closes to simulate gears?

It's just a variator that has a stepper motor built into it, and you program the amount of positions in it.

This is going to be hard to adapt to a hobbit/derbi at all, as it's meant to sit between the belt and the cases, not at the outside like the two mopeds above. You'll have to have a cover/guard that supports the outside of the mechanism from spinning and twisting itself apart. Also, you will to full reg/rec and run a battery because I highly doubt that it's going to like anything be clean DC.

Make sure you have the mildest contra you got in the rear so you don't yet the whole thing right off the end of the crank.

The biggest hurtle is that either way you slice it, you have to adapt a different crank/mill the hobbit/derbi bell to accept what is in essence, just a novelty.

If these were as effective as you think they could be, you'd see people using them.

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

> Dirty30 Dillon Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Wesley Ambrosini Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > So that replaces a variatior? And it opens or closes to simulate

> gears?

>

> It's just a variator that has a stepper motor built into it, and you

> program the amount of positions in it.

>

> This is going to be hard to adapt to a hobbit/derbi at all, as it's

> meant to sit between the belt and the cases, not at the outside like the

> two mopeds above. You'll have to have a cover/guard that supports the

> outside of the mechanism from spinning and twisting itself apart. Also,

> you will to full reg/rec and run a battery because I highly doubt that

> it's going to like anything be clean DC.

>

> Make sure you have the mildest contra you got in the rear so you don't

> yet the whole thing right off the end of the crank.

>

> The biggest hurtle is that either way you slice it, you have to adapt a

> different crank/mill the hobbit/derbi bell to accept what is in essence,

> just a novelty.

>

> If these were as effective as you think they could be, you'd see people

> using them.

Guys I’m not adding this onto a hobbit crank I’m slapping a zuma engine under the frame and running a tomos arrow front end 😬

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

> Dirty30 Dillon Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Wesley Ambrosini Wrote:

>

> > ---------------------------------------------------

> If these were as effective as you think they could be, you'd see people

> using them.

I mean, every single CVT car being made uses this so, yeah, OEMs are using it, just whether or not this particular unit on a Moped will be workable.

I was confused about jbots setup until I heard him explain it on Moped Monday podcast, it makes total sense, and let's you control the rate so you can kick it down and cruise, or hold it and let it rip high rpm, same reason car CVT do it, you don't want your Toyota echo to be turning 8k rpm on the highway.

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

Well I guess I’ll blow everting right now and say I’m putting a snow track on it too

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/10000291055479.html?spm=a2g0n.seo-amp-detail.productBottomBar.viewDetails&_gl=1*y5zaof*_ga*MTc5NDAzNDIxOC4xNjA1OTM5ODU0

Cut go kart shaft

Cut scooter shaft

Weld both together= snow scooter

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

First I hated this thing, then I forgot about it. which was fine.

Then I was thinking about landspeed bikes and this damn thing popped in my head.

One of the biggest limiting factors in making usable HP with little 2Ts is narrow powerband.

so, thinking about "short" speed runs you would want a strong rate of acceleration - i.e. 1-2 miles vs 6 miles (is it?) to get up to speed at a place like bonneville.

(compared to having a limited number of shift points where a wide ratio gearbox might make more sense if you had the time/space)

So I'm wondering about this kind of tech for manual (or automatic) digital control of gearing relative to RPM. so, not like 6 shift points, but "infinite" (based on resolution of stepper motor relative to pulley ramp angles etc etc.) just like a CVT is supposed to be. but instead of using the technology to reduce the efficiency of a CVT by limiting its tunability, use it for more precise control vs my foot on launch lever and or springs and weights.

not that the buddfab at the mile doing 96 is a bad thing.

that being said, a "well tuned" setup works great for most applications, and even manual control gives you just that. but they have input and regulation flaws. So, I'm curious if this is a way toward maximum power potential.............

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

Totally normal JBOT /

I have a similar setup but controlled manually by hand.

In my experience on single variated, having selected stop points to rev out can really rip super hard compared to relying on foot or spring.

As far as dual variated, I’ve found that if the variator and rear are designed then tuned really well, no manual control can touch it as far as acceleration, but a programmed incremental shift could be as fast as the best roller based setups. But then reliability and getting the correct control software for all terrain conditions would be the difficult part.

The one thing I know 100% is that locked shift points work incredibly well with overbuilt high blowdown rev machines, not so much with average engines.

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

classic carl jepsen /

With the PatBox It is like moving in two dimensions instead of the one (along the "rpm vs revs" line) of the conventional CVT. Quote from the http://www.pattakon.com/pattakonPatBox.htm : Strengthening (or weakening) the restoring force that acts on the blue lever (by shifting the anchoring end of the restoring spring of the blue lever, for instance), the characteristic curve of the CVT varies: in order to increase the effective diameter of the drive pulley, the variator has to compress (by means of the V-belt) the spring of the driven pulley as usual, but it has also to displace angularly the lever 7 overcoming a stronger (or weaker) restoring force. It is like replacing "on the fly" the rollers of the variator by lighter or heavier ones. In a two-mode version the rider shifts from the "touring" to the "sport" mode by pushing a pin (a button) to anchor a middle point of the blue lever restoring spring: the restoring spring becomes stiffer, a stronger restoring force acts on the blue lever and the variator keeps the revs higher. Thanks Manolis Pattakos

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

oh yeah so just a PECVT then.

so anyways what about a linear actuator on a single variated bike - in place of the tension spring.

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

Totally normal JBOT /

Don’t bring up that pat-douche joker.

He’s such a fuckface

And I mean a fuck....face..... (edited)

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

I finally received it! Took about 2 months....

It’s even made in Italy

I’m kinda confused because this looks way more then 25€ of parts in the box

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Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

I don’t know if I want to run this anymore....

I should of bought a crap ton of them.!

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Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

I’m really confused about this one!

It’s seems like its using the existing starter motor as the stepper motor for the var

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

Totally normal JBOT /

Wtf? Really?

The actual motor or does it just use the housing to mount a replacement?

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

> JBOT Admin Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Wtf? Really?

>

> The actual motor or does it just use the housing to mount a replacement?

Yea the The actual starter motor, you swap out the brushes in the motor with the once they supplied

The directions are in Dutch

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Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

Totally normal JBOT /

Ohhhh, it turns it into a stepper.

Wow that’s ingenious

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

Wait. How in the world does it control variation thru the starter motor?

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

The plot thickens

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

> Aaron Blair Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Wait. How in the world does it control variation thru the starter motor?

Dirt Dillion said it uses a stepper motor, the only electronic motor being used is the starter motor so I presume this becomes the stepper motor!?

No I don’t know how the fuck this happens or works.. I’m very interested in hooking it up and seeing what happens.

Re: Electronic sequence shifter?

So the only way this works is if you have an electronic starter on your bike? Or place for one.

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