MOPED ARMY

Mar 08, 2020 06:16PM

It’s been done before. You have have have to have straight cut gears and a local machinist wizard to get it done properly. It’s not easy pease lemon squeezy, the tolerance is very very close to the main gear and you only get one shot at it. There is also the problem of making the bell bushing/needle bearing, since the crankshaft is only case hardened it gets blasted by the needle bearings under regular use. For a race bike it would probably be fine, but idling all the time would probably kill your crank. With drawn cup bearings you can’t get the tolerances tight enough without it wanting to bind up. I would recommend a custom cut bushing made from sintered aluminum or use loose needle rollers.

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Alex Hedrick /

Mar 08, 2020 06:30PM

> Daniel '' Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> It’s been done before. You have have have to have straight cut gears and

> a local machinist wizard to get it done properly. It’s not easy pease

> lemon squeezy, the tolerance is very very close to the main gear and you

> only get one shot at it. There is also the problem of making the bell

> bushing/needle bearing, since the crankshaft is only case hardened it

> gets blasted by the needle bearings under regular use. For a race bike

> it would probably be fine, but idling all the time would probably kill

> your crank. With drawn cup bearings you can’t get the tolerances tight

> enough without it wanting to bind up. I would recommend a custom cut

> bushing made from sintered aluminum or use loose needle rollers.

Well... good thing I am a machinist and have a lathe at the shop I work at and a mill in my garage! Haha I'm not worried about tight tolerances as I work with .0001 of inch all day every day.. should go smooth!

I know it's been done before.. but I've never seen reports back with results.. maybe I havent dug deep enough.. but I know I can make it work just fine and have it rip!

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Daniel '' /

Go to branch

Mar 08, 2020 07:20PM

I have no doubt you can accomplish it, it is just an expensive mistake if you don’t do it perfect, when you get all the parts together you will see what I mean. Very little margin for error. Naz did one for MattP’s fuel injected maxi. He basically refuses to do it again because it was such a pain and boring the gear for the bell to take loose rollers was the loudest screeching I have ever heard. They make those things out of some crazy hard steel.

Most people who have done it don’t want to spill the beans. It’s pretty common that for people keep their clutch set ups a secret for the most part, especially in the euro sprint tuner scene. Its the lynchpin of a ripping set up. I’ve had really good luck on my race bike with balancing the shoes, relining them with (secret) materials, bracing, then welding and truing the bell. The tomar is absolutely the best single speed clutch ever made, not only can you set the stall to a desired rpm, it has basically zero heat fade and maintenance includes swapping out friction discs every xx hours and springs every xxx. (edited)

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Alex Hedrick /

Mar 08, 2020 08:12PM

I get it.. one shot.. dont fuck it up! Haha I like that kind of challenge! Cant wait! I'm sure I'll change my tune after its done.. but for now I'm super stoked.. been wanting to do it for almost 2 years now.. finally fed up with bushings, soft "aftermarket needle bearing clutches" and all the shit that comes with stock clutches.. don't get me wrong.. it's more than half the fun working on em, but damn.. I just wanna ride this summer! Haha

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Daniel '' /

Go to branch

Mar 08, 2020 08:21PM

I’ve been using the same bell bushing for over 6 years now. It’s made of sintered aluminum and has out lived 2 bells and 4 clutches.

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

EH 📣FCC of the QCB /

Go to branch

ericqcb

Mar 09, 2020 07:32AM

I’m very interested in this. I bough a Tomar clutch and started looking at how much work it would take and was like....nawh, not right now.

People always talk about the Tomar but I have never seen one actually on a bike.

My solution to riding it this summer is an HK clutch from Puchshop. But when I got it I am shocked at how heavy it is. It is like a brick. Not really thrilled about running it.

So needles to say I am into this.

Daniel what is this bushing your talking about?

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

🇮🇹💦 Of the Loin /

Go to branch

maitland

Mar 09, 2020 07:47AM

Curious, why the need for straight cut gears?

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Dirty30 Dillon /

hydra

Mar 09, 2020 11:26AM

I'm going to guess that because of the high stall, the stress put on the helical gears creates too much side load on the small snap rings. So you need straight cut to mitigate this.

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Daniel '' /

Go to branch

Mar 09, 2020 12:14PM

Hk is great, just don’t cook the Kevlar. The bushing I have is one puchshop used to sell and is amazingly resilient, too bad they sell out in .5 seconds

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Pritza R&D /

aojtin

Mar 09, 2020 01:09PM

good for you for doing this and sharing this. I've always wanted to run one of these but am a dedicated working pedals on every bike kinda guy. Maybe there's a way to do a pedal start tomar, but its a lot of time and money to invest with uncertainty. for a race bike this makes 1000% sense. excited to see what you dig into!

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Born to be WillD /

Go to branch

willd

Mar 09, 2020 03:51PM

I always wanted to also but im a cheap shit, that clutch is more than the last clean and running bike I sold. But it's also such a neat potential. but even if i succeeded all it'd really get me is some short-lived brags to my buddies.

fuck. i still want it to happen tho!

anyway - i applaud this effort, watch with great anticipation, and very interested to see this work.

i'm having a hard time understanding what it even needs - also, could you just cut and weld the back of the bells together? and then you just gotta match the tapers?

I can't justify the money to just get one that I just look at and wonder how to make it work, and it's extra scary to realize the cost might be double by the time it's all fitted right. yea - please take this risk so we dont have to!!

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Alex Hedrick /

Mar 10, 2020 05:52AM

> Born to be WillD Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I always wanted to also but im a cheap shit, that clutch is more than

> the last clean and running bike I sold. But it's also such a neat

> potential. but even if i succeeded all it'd really get me is some

> short-lived brags to my buddies.

>

> fuck. i still want it to happen tho!

>

> anyway - i applaud this effort, watch with great anticipation, and very

> interested to see this work.

>

> i'm having a hard time understanding what it even needs - also, could

> you just cut and weld the back of the bells together? and then you just

> gotta match the tapers?

>

> I can't justify the money to just get one that I just look at and wonder

> how to make it work, and it's extra scary to realize the cost might be

> double by the time it's all fitted right. yea - please take this risk so

> we dont have to!!

Haha I know.. I'm pretty confident it will all fall together pretty nicely.. straight cut gears, kick start, clutch... the whole thing.. itll be pretty damn badass when it's done tho.. no worries! It's happening!!!! Just give me a few weeks tops to get everything together and about a day to fit everything.. I'll post photos as I go!!!

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

todd amundson /

nudebowl

Mar 11, 2020 12:03PM

Lots of info https://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/read.php?7,4243032

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

jordan * /

hooter

Mar 11, 2020 08:31PM

What straight cut set ya running? I got my tomar bell welded up to the vdm straight cut clutch gear, got the bearings on the main gear and it wobbles and scrapes case and has tight spots when meshed with clutch bell. Lameeeee. But I think they're gonna send a replacement once they get a new batch in, they seem like solid dudes

The treats set is superrr nice but $$$. I have em in a different bike and they're probably worth it, but expensive enough that I was tryna cheap out for these ones. Fingers crossed for next batch having better quality control. Get what ya pay for I guess

Pullstart, minimize the bullshit in your transmission and if your carbs dialed in it's no sweat

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Alex Hedrick /

Mar 12, 2020 04:42AM

> todd amundson Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Lots of info https://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/read.php?7,4243032

Yes! I've read thru this thread!! Good read!!

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Alex Hedrick /

Mar 12, 2020 04:46AM

Welded the case halves over a year ago.. never machined it back flat, just threw a shity kit on it and went.. finally got around to doing so now! Shh... let's not talk about that porosity... it's fine and itll seal up.. haha

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Alex Hedrick /

Mar 12, 2020 04:51AM

Sits square to the crank! Nice....

Rough .0300" gasket made up real quick to get the ports where I want em and check things out. Need a new crank, bearings and seals... coming real soon!

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Alex Hedrick /

Mar 12, 2020 10:26AM

> jordan * Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> What straight cut set ya running? I got my tomar bell welded up to the

> vdm straight cut clutch gear, got the bearings on the main gear and it

> wobbles and scrapes case and has tight spots when meshed with clutch

> bell. Lameeeee. But I think they're gonna send a replacement once they

> get a new batch in, they seem like solid dudes

>

> The treats set is superrr nice but $$$. I have em in a different bike

> and they're probably worth it, but expensive enough that I was tryna

> cheap out for these ones. Fingers crossed for next batch having better

> quality control. Get what ya pay for I guess

>

> Pullstart, minimize the bullshit in your transmission and if your carbs

> dialed in it's no sweat

That funny you say that about vdm.. I'm waiting for him to get some back from heat treat.. that's what I plan on running.. I've been eyeing the treats set for a while.. but right, $$$.. damn! I'll take my chances with the vdm set.. if they have run out I'll just have more work ahead of me.. lol

I totally dislike pullstarts... makes it feel more of a chainsaw than it already does.. haha but really.. I'll keep my kickstart. You'll see what I have planned. Should work out pretty good!

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Alex Hedrick /

Mar 15, 2020 09:20AM

Turned down some dowels to keep the cylinder where it should be.. gunna flow the transfers and smooth em out. Did the same with the head also.. all fits together nice and tight now! (Forgot to get pics of the head)

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Alex Hedrick /

Mar 19, 2020 07:07PM

Got the new stuffy crank, bearings and seals amongst a few other things that no one cares about.. waiting for the vdm straight cut gears. Should be a week or so before those come... then.... the tomar clutch purchase happens.

BUT! Theres a chance my shop .ight have to shut down due to coronavirus.. no one including myself has it there. But it's a precaution.. sooo if that happens, the cashflow stops..

I hope everyone out there is staying good and safe with all this going on!! We got this!

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Louis Brunskill /

Mar 21, 2020 02:59PM

What are the few other things? Enquiring minds want ta know ~

Is that a brush for grooming your pussy by chance? Does the candle get used for waxing the hard to reach areas that the brush refuses ta keep under control ?

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Louis Brunskill /

Mar 21, 2020 03:00PM

The crank n bearings are nice all n all tho! Keep at it! I'll be sure ta watch this one closely. And swing over n try it out when it runs in a few...

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Louis Brunskill /

Mar 21, 2020 03:08PM

If it works out as I suspect.. it just me be worthy of putting a pair of these on it... kinda like the "guardian bell" but we'll uses "Guardian BALLS" in this case..

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Alex Hedrick /

Mar 21, 2020 04:35PM

> Louis Brunskill Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> What are the few other things? Enquiring minds want ta know ~

>

> Is that a brush for grooming your pussy by chance? Does the candle get

> used for waxing the hard to reach areas that the brush refuses ta keep

> under control ?

Fuck! How'd you know?!?! Should have taken the pic in the garage.. shit

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Alex Hedrick /

Mar 21, 2020 04:36PM

> Louis Brunskill Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> If it works out as I suspect.. it just me be worthy of putting a pair of

> these on it... kinda like the "guardian bell" but we'll uses "Guardian

> BALLS" in this case..

Oh.. itll have some balls of it's own when its complete!! Haha

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Alex Hedrick /

Mar 21, 2020 04:38PM

Makin a intake flange to weld the 20mm intake I already have.. drilled it at 3/4 for shaping and matching it up after welding.. waiting for the gears!!!

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Alex Hedrick /

Mar 22, 2020 01:56PM

Welded up and flowed/smoothed out.. nice n tight to the frame and tucked back! Hell yeah!

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

SEAN BILLINGY /

billdesman

Mar 30, 2020 01:08PM

Following thread. Really interested to see how this works out!

Re: Puch e50 tomar clutch??

Louis Brunskill /