Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Colin Ratcliff /

OK SO

1) when I switched to floating the ground, nothing worked

2) When I unplugged the pump, nothing got brighter

SO, it's not that it's a lack of total power, because it literally can't power JUST A HEADLIGHT. Not sure what the hell is wrong, but something is definitely off.

Current wiring:

yellow from stator to yellow at reg/rec

red from reg/rec to power for lights, pump, capacitor

black from reg/rec to ground

black from capacitor to ground

all the other power goes to ground

Like I said, the two above discoveries were super odd and lead me to think something is definitely off.

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Totally normal JBOT /

Gotta get a meter and read DC VOLTS coming out of the rectifier.

You have the capacitors polarity correct?

Try unplugging the cap and then check voltage

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Colin Ratcliff /

Will do! I'll check both tomorrow morning!

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Tweaker trash /

> Colin Ratcliff Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> OK SO

>

> 1) when I switched to floating the ground, nothing worked

>

> 2) When I unplugged the pump, nothing got brighter

>

> SO, it's not that it's a lack of total power, because it literally can't

> power JUST A HEADLIGHT. Not sure what the hell is wrong, but something

> is definitely off.

>

> Current wiring:

>

> yellow from stator to yellow at reg/rec

>

> red from reg/rec to power for lights, pump, capacitor

>

> black from reg/rec to ground

>

> black from capacitor to ground

>

> all the other power goes to ground

>

> Like I said, the two above discoveries were super odd and lead me to

> think something is definitely off.

🤦 why god! Check the coil with a meter if I want but it’s working.

Reg/rec is not correct....Post a link

If this is a hpi? Keep so simple, 12v reg for lights and total loss battery (lithium) for pump

Pce out

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Dirty30 Dillon /

Don't listen to Rocco.

WHy would you make the LC system a total loss and the lights run off the stator, when you NEED the pump to run and don't always need lights?

You need to meter the output. My guess is that your ground signal is weak, which is leaching power from the system.

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Why do you need to run the pump off electrics? Why not a thermo syphon or even a belt driven pump. Neither require any additional voltage dedicated to running the pump.

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

If your HPI mini indeed has one output, you have all sorts of problems.

You will need a center tap on your coil windings.

Ill say this up front, I am bad at nomenclature and am not an EE, but I have made my own ignitions and lighting coils from nothing but a spool of magnet wire and a stator frame and used reg/recs of whatever I had on hand, but not all are created equal and not all will work 100%

So looking at what you have you have the "Bridge Rectified" trailtech Reg/Rec

It is looking for 2 AC output wires, one is the full path, IE it runs through all the coils and down to earth, the other one is a half tap, it goes about half way and pulls AC from there.

For a crude explanation of why you need this from my unschooled brain. is creates a phase shift or -ve of the AC wave, which from my understanding for full bridge rectification you need.

Your mini has one AC output wire, the single yellow, so you don't have that phase shift. so the rectifier is not operating as normal.

You can add in your own half tap, or "float the ground" and pull the ground off the frame of the stator, solder a wire to it and run it to the secondary ac input on your rectifier. Personally since it has 3 coils for lights I would just find a spot on the magnet wire in between coil 1-2 or 2-3 and just scrape back the coating and add in a wire and hot glue or silicone it to keep it secure and leave the ground on the last coil. As long as you don't cut the wire its easy enough to just pull it off at a later date and not wreck your stator.

This is the way like 90% of every single phase OEM modern day lighting stator works.

And I am ok if someone comes in and tells me I butchered that explanation.

I have photos and wiring diagrams of what I am explaining somewhere but I will have to hunt for them.

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Dirty30 Dillon /

Joel's right.

You're only supplying the full-bridge rec with 1/2 of the AC signal it needs off that coil. In order to provide that, you will need to lift the other end of that coil and apply that as the other 1/2 of the AC signal. This will provide you with the full power DC you're needing.

From there you can run to a battery for charging and then pull from that to run lights and your pump.

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Also it should read solder, then hot glue or silicone....

This isn't a Youtube DIY channel.

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Tweaker trash /

> Dirty30 Dillon Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Don't listen to Rocco.

>

> WHy would you make the LC system a total loss and the lights run off the

> stator, when you NEED the pump to run and don't always need lights?

>

> You need to meter the output. My guess is that your ground signal is

> weak, which is leaching power from the system.

5hrs in plenty enough for the water pump! Keep the wiring simply that’s all I’m saying! Keep it simply, don’t overthink it

Light are nice during that day! But U probably think a bike like this belongs on a track only

Edit: 5 hrs! (edited)

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Till the pump battery dies, you don't notice and you overheat it. I don't know about you but i can't hear a small electric pump over a running 50cc engine.

It's better to have it attempting to charge it, even if it can't keep up and if it is on the lights, if the lights start to die you know that your cooling is also gone.

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Tweaker trash /

> Joel P Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Till the pump battery dies, you don't notice and you overheat it. I

> don't know about you but i can't hear a small electric pump over a

> running 50cc engine.

>

> It's better to have it attempting to charge it, even if it can't keep up

> and if it is on the lights, if the lights start to die you know that

> your cooling is also gone.

Wait why would it be better to charge it even if it can’t keep up! That’s like giving ur self a false security and is no better then the total loss system of worst because ur confidence is in the charging system.

The battery won’t die, come down. You have multiple things to prevent over heating!

3 Temp gauges! in & out on the hoses and one on the spark plug hole

Battery gauge to tell when ur getting low

And what about those belt driven water pumps? Guys don’t worry about losing that tiny rubber band or for it to fail.

Maybe if u came up with the idea u would go along with it. None of these are horrible ideas expect mine 😂

Owner of Coca-Cola “ for you to be successful and can’t worry about some else taking the credit” (edited)

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

I thought you said keep it simple?

Were adding 3 temp gauges now?

I think if my lights go dim, its pretty easy to say wait I don't have cooling. It's pretty simple. I don't even need a gauge to tell me that. I would even argue the wires are already there and provided... again, pretty simple...

It can't keep up because no matter how hard you try you can't beat the fact the output is 55 watts. but I would argue some charging is better than no charging. Yet when you say do total loss that's just fine?

I dunno, I'd bet dollars to donuts I've made more completely custom watercooled 50cc things than you.... I think experience is worth quite a bit?

I can't believe I got suckered into a Methhead Trash argument circle, I feel honored.

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Totally normal JBOT /

I wish there was a block function on this forum

There are brushless water pumps that draw less than the Bosch. Perhaps do some research on the lowest drawing hot water pump. That eBay China hot water brushless only pulls 300mA. Good quality no, but it’ll last a year or 2. I’ve run em

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Dirty30 Dillon /

> JBOT Admin Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I wish there was a block function on this forum

>

> There are brushless water pumps that draw less than the Bosch. Perhaps

> do some research on the lowest drawing hot water pump. That eBay China

> hot water brushless only pulls 300mA. Good quality no, but it’ll last a

> year or 2. I’ve run em

Yeah, the Bosch is heavy draw. I have used the Audi/VW aux pump as it's nice and compact, and that draws between 1.5-1.9 A, depending on your routing and radiator.

To run a pump and LED lights, you should look at ~ 5Ah battery, which given a draw of ~3.5-4A at peak should have the headroom to cover you. The 55w HPI stator can provide ~4.6A of current, so it should be able to charge the system, from purely a pen and paper standpoint.

If you aren't pushing ~13VDC from the regulator, there is an issue that needs to be rectified (get it?, it's an EE joke).

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Colin Ratcliff /

This is all suuuper helpful. I've also been talking to the Trailtech guy and he's been giving advice as well.

I'm going to:

1) power without any lights or accessories

2) power without capacitor

3) power from stator

4) try putting another capacitor in to see if that helps - he thinks that my capacitor is too small so there isn't enough load

Otherwise, yep, gonna need to float the ground from the stator and give that a go.

It has also been overheating every time I take it for a ride (getting up to 210 F and boiling out). I'm thinking this is because there's not enough power to the pump, but might also be that the radiator is too small (it's from a ruckus).

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Tweaker trash /

> JBOT Admin Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I wish there was a block function on this forum

>

> There are brushless water pumps that draw less than the Bosch. Perhaps

> do some research on the lowest drawing hot water pump. That eBay China

> hot water brushless only pulls 300mA. Good quality no, but it’ll last a

> year or 2. I’ve run em

What happens when they brake.... I’m out pce

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Totally normal JBOT /

I highly doubt you’re “out”

Prove me wrong

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Totally normal JBOT /

If the pump isnt running that will happen.

For now either set it up thermosyphon or slap a battery on it for testing. A belt driven pump does work pretty good if you wanted to try it. Doesn’t have to run off the crank, lots of fancy options you could make.

It’s probably been mentioned but if you want to have an extra generator for power you could always add an extra electric motor somewhere to create power. I’m sure some kind of hub motor could be used to create more power when rolling to charge batteries. Would it be a slight drag? Yeah. But you would also be able to run it in an emergency to get your ass home.

I’ve wanted a front electric hub just for emergency breakdowns

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

> JBOT Admin Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> If the pump isnt running that will happen.

>

> For now either set it up thermosyphon or slap a battery on it for

> testing. A belt driven pump does work pretty good if you wanted to try

> it. Doesn’t have to run off the crank, lots of fancy options you could

> make.

>

>

Yay, glad it was said by someone else. Ha!

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Colin Ratcliff /

Here's the multimeter reading without any accessories. Not sure why it's so wonky, but this is also a new multimeter so I may be doing it wrong.

Without the capacitor the reg/rec makes a crazy clicking noise.

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Colin Ratcliff /

Ignore the last one, I had a couple wires grounded to the frame. Here it is, with

yellow from stator > reg/rec > red from reg rec > meter > cap > black from reg/rec.

Looks like it's AC?

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

I don't know where your measuring from but basically either side of the lighting output coil should be AC. (your yellow wire and the second wire you add on to make the 2nd output) It fluctuates wildly usually and unless you add smoothing to the output it's almost nonsensical.

I can't see what units your in there but it seems to be outputting and amount of something.

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Colin Ratcliff /

Sorry, the meter location is in my post:

stator > reg/rec > red from reg rec > meter > cap > black from reg/rec.

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Colin Ratcliff /

Anybody have any ideas? This is with the capacitor in place, you can see the values look pretty good (in the second video) but they're AC. For DC it is going negative when I rev up, and is going from 9.5ish (at idle) to 8.5ish when I rev.

Stupid multimeter is on auto so I can't tell what the actual units are.

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Totally normal JBOT /

In the first vid, did I see like 300v or was it .300v

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Tweaker trash /

> Colin Ratcliff Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Anybody have any ideas? This is with the capacitor in place, you can see

> the values look pretty good (in the second video) but they're AC. For DC

> it is going negative when I rev up, and is going from 9.5ish (at idle)

> to 8.5ish when I rev.

>

> Stupid multimeter is on auto so I can't tell what the actual units are.

Sorry jbot!

Dude we want to see the voltage and amps off the startor with no bs after it!

That fucking capacitor 😂

Pce

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Totally normal JBOT /

You can’t read unloaded current doofus

You can only really measure current in any meaningful way when there’s a load, otherwise it’s just it’s potential ability to provide current

Straight off the hpi with nothing else there should be 2 ac lines. If you measure those ac volts unloaded at 7-9k Rpms that’s what I want to know (edited)

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Colin Ratcliff /

JBOT, I'm not certain, it might be 30 or 3 or 300 or .300, this thing is auto calibrating. So I think it adjusts to like 10ths of a volt etc. I'll try to get a more solid setting today.

Will also get the values off the stator, but honestly I'm not certain why those matter at this point - something is obviously up with my wiring for the reg/rec, and whatever is coming off the stator is just going to be fairly standard and absolutely should be enough to get my headlight brighter than it does. This is how the headlight looks with nothing else wired in except for the reg/rec and at full rev. It looks super bright without the reg/rec. I am of course happy to try anything but I feel like chasing the volts from the stator is solving for an issue that may not even be a thing. I'd prefer to get the wiring right first.

PXL_20210302_013140938.jpg

(edited)

Re: Crazy Custom Frame Hobbit

Tweaker trash /

> JBOT Admin Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> If

> you measure those ac volts unloaded at 7-9k Rpms that’s what I want to

> know

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