MOPED ARMY

Clutchless means no idle and you have to tune it well since there is no clutch to compensate for sloppy low speed tuning.

Advantages include less rotating mass which means more top end and faster acceleration in some situations.

Belt wear is the same unless you are using a launch lever to slip the belt, in which case idk, more wear over time I guess?

Simply not true.

Please don’t make definitive statements if you don’t understand something.

If you remove rotational mass from an assembly, it can accelerate to peak RPM faster, which obviously increases acceleration. But, having less rotating mass also allows your entire assembly to spin faster overall, increasing top end power gains and overall speed.

It's never bad to remove weight from your rotating assembly, but it can be bad to remove weight solely from one end. (edited)

this sounds complex

It is my current understanding/belief that standardized testing would show *negligible* differences in HP (Power) and RPM between two engines with differences in mass being the only variable.

That being said, I choose to interpret Victor's: "more top end... in some situations," as a real world practical consideration. MORE, not HIGHER.

With the same Power, you would need less time to get things up to speed. and because you usually brake to stop instead of coast, that means MORE time using power for propulsion instead of mass investment.

and the bike's weight will be marginally lighter, which again increases acceleration. which is more TIME going fast. which can be interpreted as MORE top speed, not necessarily HIGHER. (obviously not the primary point here, but still valid).

Also if you have no clutch, (in a perfect world with no belt slip) then you aren't wasting power making heat trying to get it to the wheel. Like trying to drink from a firehose.

consider trials bikes modifications on the other end of the spectrum. people often add rotating mass/flywheel weight to help with "more low end" power. If tuned with the other systems of the engine, it will help keep the bike in the low powerband longer, and with positive clutch engagement. so you are investing all of the power you can in the inertia bank to make things more tractable. (insert water drinking analogy here).

as far as french mopeds go, I think the "clutchless" setups I have seen were for simplicity. they still have a clutch, just in the form of belt slip.

I would consider racing without a clutch if the track was appropriate - which I am assuming would be higher corner speeds and longer straights. I've never ridden with one, but i'm certain you could tune/gear it for short stuff. typically geared for top speed, using clutch to get off the line. but ideally the variator has such a range that you spend as little time possible slipping the clutch to get out of corners, but still has full range to achieve top speed.

just my 3¢

Cool, so the main advantage is simplicity.

All the weight shit is blah blah blah. Got it

I really hope he’s smarter then me too! I will get back to modifying my slow pipe if I want to. I gotta get to one of these moped gps, My mopeds all run like shit so it will be really funny to compete with someone that takes this stuff so seriously.

I like air leaks, I tune around the air leaks!

I feel like it would be way worse if I said “ rotational weight effects mph” but ether way you would of said something in reply.

It could happen but I’m not making and promises because I don’t know

Kid wants more mph, I can’t promise that, he gains mph and is still pissed at me :) (edited)

since things seem a bit contentious, let me add more.

Rocco is correct in that reducing rotating mass does NOT affect steady state power output.

in other words, prolonged WOT runs will net the same ultimate top speed. a load bearing (NOT inertial) dynamometer will show the same HP.

however, these types of situations are not often encountered in real world scenarios. the vast majority of riding time is either speeding up or slowing down, and in those cases reducing rotational inertia offers benefits in that delta rpm/time (and therefore rate of accel/decel) can be increased.

bottom line: no delta rpm, no benefit. more delta rpm, more benefit.

the same holds true for ALL rotating parts on ALL vehicles.

I believe you have it right , provided the same amount of energy is equally applied , start to finish .

Ever pick something up that you thought was heavy and it turned out to be very lightweight ? That lightweight piece probably almost flew out of your hand as you nearly slapped yourself in the face . ;)

So , technically , yes . ;)

Slipping the clutch generates a lot of drag and loss of inertia in the turns. There is also the problem of over revs, this where you are trying to decel, but the bike keeps pushing you forward until the clutch disengages. I’m not sure how to explain it any better, having a good rear disc or large drum will make it manageable, but having no clutch you get straight engine braking.

Yea I probably wouldn’t of even commented if I looked at your name first. I know who you are dawg, I’m not going to act like I don’t.

https://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/read.php?7,4333044,4333261#msg-4333261

Can someone just add this info to the fucking wiki

Cuz I’m Countryboy tuning we need someone with more credibility like dirty Dillion or three knees down.

Il post stuff on the wiki that I literally just copy (like port maps or gaskets).

Shout out to all my haters! Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. I like to be very nice to my enemies and confuse them and make them believe Im at there Mercy.