PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

Hey, I'm Joel. I'm a guy who does stuff to stuff. I guess this is my first post intro? It's not my first rodeo on builds, but I have a bunch of noobish questions about jamming ped parts into other ped parts so bear with me.

I've done 2stroke scooters for a while.. and made some outside the box builds. Did a small bore 2 stroke shifty motorcycle and an restored a vintage Vespa for the lady... but i'm now on the hunt for a new challenge. so I did some research and decided to pick up a PA50

Why a Hobbit? Well I have a spare Peugeot Stage6 Racing Modular here from when I had my twin cylinder scooty. After checking some of the bits needed to make a go fast moped from being into Honda scoots I have a bunch of leftover bits that will make the process way easier and cheaper.

So a few things I want to do:

1. Switch the rear out to a pulley/clutch like on my scooty. I have a stock Piaggio one here that is huge, or some Dio ones that are about the same size as the Hobbit, but they go smaller diameter that the hobbit one will allow. It looks like I can either make a new shaft or mate a Piaggio input to a hobbit shaft and bore the cases out a little bit to accept a 6003 bearing. I am unsure what to do about the neutral lockout tab thing on the transmission... I want to disable it and remove it but I am not sure what to do there yet.

2. Motor stuff, setup the s6 cylinder. I kinda want to see if I can put a Piaggio Scooty crank in the PA50 cases and run an normal variator up front. The Hobbit and Piaggio Cranks are about the same width and the diameters are close. I dunno if anyone has done this before or I am breaking new ground? Otherwise just grab a stuffy and throw that in there and modify the weird clutch out of the front half.

3. Front end swap.. would like a disk brake. Probably try and find a pit bike front end and modify that on there.

4. Kickstart

5. Switch ignition to CDI with a curve

and just some general fixing of things.

I have the motor apart, I noticed my case halves differ in deck height by about .005-.010" unsure if someone just jammed 2 case halves from different motors together or that's normal on these. Both the alignment dowels are in there so I am thinking that may be the case. Someone has been in this thing before and made a real mess of the cylinder holes. Some helicoils are in my future.

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

sup man.

fellow hobbit - er here.

so if you do that cyl, cool! just remember that you'll have to do a electronic water pump if you wanna do a kickstart

since you cant run a kicker off the flywheel nut since that's what's used to run a mech water pump.

orrrr figure out another way to do it and do both!

looking forward to seeing your build!

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

Yep I have 2 of these cylinders just kicking around. I was either going to run a Bosch PAD or the Malossi energy pump so no worries there.

So today I made a few dummy bearings for the hobbit cases to test fit things. Just ground the OD on a bench grinder and the ID with a dremel. Nice slip fit allows me to test assemble everything.

I have half a Piaggio scooty crank here.. why half? Well I'm kinda thinking about making another twin and I was doing a mock up of things and split my last Piaggio crank to do some figuring.

The good news. Piaggio bearing diameters are the same 20mm, the widths are about .02 off.. not a deal breaker at all (Piaggio scooty I measured 1.595 and Hobbit is 1.615) and the webs fit fine.

The seal will have to be run really low in the case but I think it can work. The seal opening may also have to be opened up as well.

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

well, this is cool!

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

Make it riP!

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

Ignition side, gonna need some finesse.

Turn that nubbin down and put a different seal in there. There is a bunch of room to work with..

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

Maybe a little magic would help . ;)

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

> P D Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Maybe a little magic would help . ;)

Im pretty sure this guys got the magic all right

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

The magic man

Now you see me, now you don’t!

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

Brandon Weiss (Detective brandon to you) /

Hardly noob-ish...this is gonna be sick. Whatever it is, find some way to incorporate pedals into it. Welcome!

Also, is it just an illusion, or do the splines on the crank look worn/flattened toward the middle?

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

Brandon Weiss (Detective brandon to you) /

> Ana L. of the Aurora Roras Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> The magic man

>

> Now you see me, now you don’t!

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

> Brandon Weiss (Detective brandon to you) Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Also, is it just an illusion, or do the splines on the crank look

> worn/flattened toward the middle?

I see a couple places wear shows , one close to the case and then again toward the middle .

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

So I went digging tonight. Past me sabotaged future me by throwing out stuff... some Piaggio variators to be exact.. I also had some crankshafts as well but god damn past me really sucks sometimes.

from eye humping this it seem like the variator will be within a 1/16th of centerline of the pulley. But now I need to get a variator to check this or tear apart a working scoot to get the parts.

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

Also that is normal on these cranks.. its not wear, it's manufactured that way.

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

> Joel P Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Also that is normal on these cranks.. its not wear, it's manufactured

> that way.

Learn something new , every day . ;)

And , it looks like you put together some 'interesting' bikes .

Thanks for sharing .

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

Well it turns out S6 Discontinued their Racing modular for the Speedfight.. I checked today and it seems they don't offer anything like it anymore.. bummer I guess the R/T just makes more sense.

So this may be one of the last builds I do with this bad boy. I bought a few of them a few years back, this is my last one.

Milled out the cylinder skirt area on the cases. Still need to weld them up to do the porting and flowing.

So in transmission news. This happened.

That is a Piaggio input shaft pushed into a 6003 bearing. I bored out the stock pocket and put it in there.. this allows for many other clutch and variator options.

Its not perfect.. I need to take the rear half of the hobbit shaft and mate it to the front of the piaggio.... or make a new shaft entirely.. I will probably scab this one together first, then make a new one later on. The gear patterns are not quite the same.

But you end up with this.. Wheelie tiem.

I talked to my main squeeze at Scootertuning.ca Jean.. he is going to hook me up with a Stage6 Crank with 85mm rod so I can continue this puzzle for you cats.

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

I can’t get enough of this

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

Terbo Speghetti /

> Brandon Weiss (Detective brandon to you) Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> ...Whatever it is, find some way

> to incorporate pedals into it....

>

Pfffffffff who cares

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

Transmission completed. Made a steel pedal mode lockout and my hybrid Piaggio Honda clutch is installed.

I have to weld the cases tonight on the engine... hopefully it goes well.

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

When left to my own devices I often create problems far greater than I can ever imagine.

I am still going to physically stuff a Piaggio crank in stock cases for science in case others want to fill some shoes... but then I got really...REALLY sidetracked.

Basically CNC cases, accept all Piaggio parts, built in water jacket, accepts Malossi Flange mount, Big VL18 reed... could even be bored to accept RC-One 94cc stuff which would make for an exciting time.

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

Get sidetracked! Awesome work.

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

Cheap kickstart on the way... 36 USD + shipping

http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/E80JrOwG

This guy has the Jialing JL50 kickstart, Gastank and Variator in his store.

Also grabbed a new tank.. I got mine acid dipped and it turned into swiss cheese.

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

Make it happen please! Trickmetric had the idea like 4 years ago to get cnc cases even had the drawings but never put it down into the axis machine.

Stage 6 r/t 95cc would be killer

> Joel P Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> When left to my own devices I often create problems far greater than I

> can ever imagine.

>

> I am still going to physically stuff a Piaggio crank in stock cases for

> science in case others want to fill some shoes... but then I got

> really...REALLY sidetracked.

>

> https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TsUmEe1NPJ8/Xb5xtUqnX0I/AAAAAAAAYV4/REwWXAuUXXMyasWnaezjhwl3sp8fcx2iACKgBGAsYHg/s1600/20191102_231701.jpg

>

> https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UD6TQGgBQPg/Xb5xtW5lbnI/AAAAAAAAYV4/KZVYSEAm3ngzo26TsL6UjXwsIBu4zTeHACKgBGAsYHg/s1600/20191102_231728.jpg

>

> Basically CNC cases, accept all Piaggio parts, built in water jacket,

> accepts Malossi Flange mount, Big VL18 reed... could even be bored to

> accept RC-One 94cc stuff which would make for an exciting time.

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

Will it happen? I think so. Will I do production? ehhhhhh not sure, because I don't have the means to do more than 1-2 of these for myself.

I would partner up with someone and do all the prototyping and R&D if they wanted to produce them though for a small cut, Prototyping is my jam.

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

Treatland.TV would be the best place to contact about doing a small production run.

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

Barry (Bob) Brown /

> Joel P Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Cheap kickstart on the way... 36 USD + shipping

>

> http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/E80JrOwG

>

> This guy has the Jialing JL50 kickstart, Gastank and Variator in his

> store.

>

> Also grabbed a new tank.. I got mine acid dipped and it turned into

> swiss cheese.

I just grabbed one of those kickstarts as well. Hoping it clear everything and covers can remain. thx for the link! (edited)

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

> Barry (Bob) Brown Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Joel P Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > Cheap kickstart on the way... 36 USD + shipping

>

> >

>

> > http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/E80JrOwG

>

> >

>

> > This guy has the Jialing JL50 kickstart, Gastank and Variator in his

>

> > store.

>

> >

>

> > Also grabbed a new tank.. I got mine acid dipped and it turned into

>

> > swiss cheese.

>

> I just grabbed one of those kickstarts as well. Hoping it clear

> everything and covers can remain. thx for the link!

It should, it's the same that some mopeds shop sell.

I think the vario is the PAii 6 slider that everyone wants too.. I have no need for it otherwise I would give it a go.

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

> Barry (Bob) Brown Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Joel P Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > Cheap kickstart on the way... 36 USD + shipping

>

> >

>

> > http://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/E80JrOwG

>

> >

>

> > This guy has the Jialing JL50 kickstart, Gastank and Variator in his

>

> > store.

>

> >

>

> > Also grabbed a new tank.. I got mine acid dipped and it turned into

>

> > swiss cheese.

>

> I just grabbed one of those kickstarts as well. Hoping it clear

> everything and covers can remain. thx for the link!

It's my understanding you can't have pedals on with a Kickstarter; they won't clear. I could be thinking of some other bike though, maybe you don't have to remove the pedals but they won't be able to fully rotate? I can't remember for sure

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

Dan (high idle) Conway /

...Screw the pedals... This guys gonna have a hobbit that takes him to middle earth and back

Re: PA50 PPPPPpower (Lil Hobbit that could..)

I have one similar on the back burner, 125cc Honda crank and 55mm kit.

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