#1 Grandpa intake?

OK, I'm playing with Jets and such in my 78 Sport MKII

Got the #1 Grandpa Intake from treats. It doesn't fit too well. Have to tilt the carb to make it fit and then the air cleaner won't fit on as it won't go back far enough.

Is tilting the carb good practice? My original needle was 2.12A with a 48 size jet. I put the #Grandpa in with a 2.12 and 64 Jet and it ran worse than "stock", barely hit 25 and bogging. I put the stock 12mm intake back in, and the 2.12 with a 58 Jet and it seems improved through out the throttle range. Accelerates faster and hits 30 faster.

So, is the problem just my jetting, or is the intake an issue running tilted. How much metal can I take off the engine where the hump is without damaging something?

Should I try to make the #1 Grandpa work, or is it not gonna make a difference. I am running a stock slightly derestricted air cleaner and a stock slightly derestricted exhausts.

Is there a block to raise the #1 Grandpa up to it goes more in the stock input location?

Trying to get to a stock 2hp config. Supposed to remove the head gasket. Will taking the head gasket off make much difference?

Thanks!

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

I’m guessing you have a ZA50 so it needs a taller intake. Post in Buy/Sell for a tall 14mm intake. I have some tall 12mm if you want that but a 14mm would be an improvement.

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

Overpriced Parts /

If you had a 48 jet stock it was a 1hp and could have Restricted cylinder and restricted internal gearing as well as restricted external gears

No use running a different intake until you find all that that out, then if it’s a normal cylinder you could remove the thick head gasket if it has one/run a thinner one, run a performance pipe and filter

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

Well, it's listed as 1.5 There is a gasket, not particularly thick to me, but not sure how to judge.

It is running much better with the new jetting. Easily hit's 30 now, even up a slight incline. I weigh 200lbs, so not exactly light weight. I'm trying to get a little more pulling power up hills, not really aiming for high speed.

It is the ZA50 2 speed.

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

Ken doesnt know every thing, every day it is more and more obvious how little he actually knows. All of his experience is anecdotal and if it can never be any other way or else youre wrong.

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

OK, I don't know all the players, so I'm just taking in the info. ;-) All advice is appreciated.

Does anyone know how much difference removing the head gasket will make? More torque? More speed?

Time for some more jets I guess to experiment some more. Would like to find a tall 14 or 15 mm intake that doesn't cost $50!

If anyone wants a deal on a #1 Grandpa, let me know. It's all good. Having fun experimenting, but don't want to waste time on dead ends if I can avoid.

It's a 1.5hp model, and the engine is the original motor, based on VIN#s. Gears, jets and such, I can't vouch for. The atomizer and jet I found were much smaller than the spec. sheet I got from Myron's Mopeds. Basically, I'm at what a stock 1.5 setup should be at this point, after bumping to the 58 jet.

Next steps will be a proper tall 14/15mm intake, try the 2.22 atomizer and the 64 jet. I have a "genuine" 15mm Bing Carb from Treats, so that will be the next, to get to the 2HP spec. But I'm changing things one at a time to see what differences the changes are making.

The #1 Grandpa with the 12mm Bing and 64 jet was not a good combo.

Cheers!

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

I would do a compression test. The 1.5hp models had an extra thick head gasket on them, but someone may have already switched it out for a regular one thickness.

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

Not sure what I would be looking for in a compression tests. Myron's spec sheet says stock 78 1.5 hp has none. 79 and 80 had .4mm (pretty dang thin). 2 hp had none.

Mine has a gasket, and it looks like more of 1.5mm to my eye, but I won't know until I pull the head and check it. At any rate, I should have no gasket for the 2 hp version.

My question is, how much difference does it make? Is it worth messing with?

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

1.5 to 2hp conversion:

A955272F-18A0-424F-BB56-0AF1BE7CE420.jpeg

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

Thanks for that! Mostly agrees with Myron's specs. Looks like they used the 2.12 atomizer in 78 and switched to 2.22 in 79/80.

I have a 2.12 with the 56 jet, so I'm pretty close. I have already modified the exhausts. I have a 2.22 atomizer I can try. Kind of odd that they went to a smaller air intake pipe on the 2hp model? Mine has a white flex pipe, but in the end is a small black disc that restricts the hole to about half or 3/4s. I though that was odd, and I removed the black restrictor. Perhaps I need to put it back according to this spec?

So last couple things to try. 1. Remove gasket (does it help much?) 2. Switch to 2.22 atomizer. 3. Go to 14mm intake (and carb? mine is a 12 currently) again does going from 12 to 14 make any significant difference?

Cool that you guys have these documents!

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

Overpriced Parts /

> Lee Snover Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks for that! Mostly agrees with Myron's specs. Looks like they

> used the 2.12 atomizer in 78 and switched to 2.22 in 79/80.

>

> I have a 2.12 with the 56 jet, so I'm pretty close. I have already

> modified the exhausts. I have a 2.22 atomizer I can try. Kind of odd

> that they went to a smaller air intake pipe on the 2hp model? Mine

> has a white flex pipe, but in the end is a small black disc that

> restricts the hole to about half or 3/4s. I though that was odd, and I

> removed the black restrictor. Perhaps I need to put it back according

> to this spec?

>

> So last couple things to try. 1. Remove gasket (does it help much?)

> 2. Switch to 2.22 atomizer. 3. Go to 14mm intake (and carb? mine is a

> 12 currently) again does going from 12 to 14 make any significant

> difference?

>

> Cool that you guys have these documents!

Just put a new thinner gasket don’t run no gasket unless you get the mating surface is completely flat, clean and not one crum of dirt on mating surface ,

I think that whole page info is a waste of time but that’s me, The stock restrictive square airbox with different plugs and snorkels is ridiculous.

I run a metal mesh filter and a cheap performance pipe with 14mm intake, man you’re going to be taking days to that work and tune it but in about an hour of work I’ll be coming by you at about 5 to 6 miles faster then your completed experiment,

I’ve had ok luck using a known1.5- 2 hp stock cylinder and pipe with metal mesh filter too,

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

I getcha, but I like the stock look. I want to be able to run with the stock side covers.

I'm most of the way there, and it hasn't been that much work. I purchased a new "oem" filter that I'm going to modify to use a K&M type air filter. So hopefully I'll have something that fits in the stock position that can bring in a decent air flow. I'm also trying to fabricate my own little air scoop that will blend in with the stock plastic sides but help push more air in.

I am going to build a 70cc speedster, but part of this process is learning what each change does along the way. If it was about time, I woudn't be messing with this old moped. It's nostalgia of my 15 year old self and the joy of tinkering.

When I was 15, I was so obsessed with my brand new Puch and so uneducated on mechanical things, I took it to the dealer for all regular service. I was afraid of messing it up. That $525 moped was a huge investment for me then. ;-)

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

***Kim Jong illest*** /

the intake in question is for e50s ONLY. it doesnt clear a za. you need to get a different intake. cramming the carb in sideways is stupid and you will never get any performance out of it, just headaches.

also, ken roff is always wrong and and always an asshole. tell him to suck your dick.

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

OK then. I guess you don't like Ken. LOL.

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

Lee, Ken is super cool, and probably the smartest, most experienced expert Puch mechanic on this site. He knows more about mopeds than just about anyone on here. Seriously, listen to him. The other guys are pretty sharp too, but they will never know half of what Ken has forgotten. My advice is listen to all of us. Eat the meat, and spit out the bones. You'll find a lot of bones here.

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

This is how you torture the newbies, isn't it? LOL.

I'm 56 and thought I was past these forms of mockery. Guess not. ;-)

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

Yeah, a lot of immaturity on this site. You'll learn who to ignore soon enough.

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

Listen to Ken on Bing atomizer selection, gearing on a za50 and that is about it. He's old and stubborn, doesnt like to experiment and is generally out of touch with the real world.

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

> Daniel '' Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Listen to Ken on Bing atomizer selection, gearing on a za50 and that is

> about it. He's old and stubborn, doesnt like to experiment and is

> generally out of touch with the real world.

Let's not forget , there are Billions of 'real' worlds . Everyone has one . ;)

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

Daniel is pretty sharp too. He races, so he does a lot of performance mods and pushes the envelope a little more than most. He has a cool little shop in Seattle. I took some cases to him to be bored and case matched; he does nice work.

So, Ken is more old school, and his builds are reliable and bulletproof. Daniel is young and risky, and out for speed, but also builds very reliable daily riders. Both have different approaches and I've learned a ton from both of them. Oh, and they hate each other; pretty sure.

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

Richard Eberline /

So Vanilla Thunder, a member since 2018, Knows everything.

Daniel doesn't listen or read.

Show MA a running bike.

Pm me for my mobile number, I have rode with Ken Roff. A eye witness to his expertise.

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

Y'all know more than I do at this point. ;-)

I appreciate the help.

Going to pull the head and clean everything good. Put a thin gasket on. I'll spring for the fancy tall intake, as I'd prefer to spend time tuning vs. making parts. No one has responded to my WTB post. So Treat man wins a few more smackers. I think I'm running good in mostly stock form. More CCs and aftermarket exhaust to make any dramatic changes I think. If I could get this mostly stock stuff to 35 with more torque for hill climbing, I'd be happy.

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

You should be able to do that pretty easy. Just a properly tuned 14 mm carb, intake, and hi flow filter will get you to 35 easy. Flip second gear clutch when you replace the pucks (you must replace the pucks) and your hill problem is solved. Put a pipe on, and you'll be hitting 45 easy, with a stock hi-torque cylinder and head. Good luck!

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

> Seth B Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> You should be able to do that pretty easy. Just a properly tuned 14 mm

> carb, intake, and hi flow filter will get you to 35 easy. Flip second

> gear clutch when you replace the pucks (you must replace the pucks) and

> your hill problem is solved. Put a pipe on, and you'll be hitting 45

> easy, with a stock hi-torque cylinder and head. Good luck!

Already did the pucks. Didn't swap gears. I'll try on #2. #1 is the base line bike. LOL.

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

Rand Jacobson /

Ken is a broken record but his info can be useful if you are building that exact setup. Some people like different flavors though.

Vanilla Thunder aka motobrokane is a dipshit juggalo who ripped a bunch of people off. He opened some shop in Goshen, Indiana and pretends to know shit. The only thing he's an expert at is being a creep.

Don't run your bing tilted. They dont like that. Find the correct intake or modify one. Maybe make a spacer for yours. People used to cut up spare stock intakes to make spacers. It works. Magnum X for example came with one from the factory.

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

> Richard Eberline Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> So Vanilla Thunder, a member since 2018, Knows everything.

>

> Daniel doesn't listen or read.

>

> Show MA a running bike.

>

> Pm me for my mobile number, I have rode with Ken Roff. A eye witness to

> his expertise.

Anyone in the fleet comes to me when they are confused or need information. Everyone who knows about moped gangs knows the fleet is the only one who actually rides mopeds every single day. I have worked on almost every brand of moped and definatly read a lot. I do listen as well, but the same song and dance over and over and over again gets so old, right?

Re: #1 Grandpa intake?

***Kim Jong illest*** /

> Richard Eberline Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> So Vanilla Thunder, a member since 2018, Knows everything.

>

> Daniel doesn't listen or read.

>

> Show MA a running bike.

>

> Pm me for my mobile number, I have rode with Ken Roff. A eye witness to

> his expertise.

2018 was last year. i owned my first moped in 1988. that was 30 years ago. i dont know if youre trying to imply that im new, but ive been here a loooooooong time. hell, by 2018 the moped army branch i was a member of had been retired for a few years.

i work on puchs literally every single day, and for the last 5 years, its been every single day for about 12 hours a day. i dont just know puchs, i know them better than you, and ken roff. because ken roff is always wrong and always an asshole.

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