pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

Tracy Meade /

Hey hey, so have been a long time points user on Puch e50, decided to see what this cheapo CDI party is all about that comes with the 2041 pietcard box.

Is it me or does this thing kinda suck?

I threw it up and put the stator somewhere in the middle and said hay cool lets go ride and saw big temps, so decided to actually check the curve on this.

Where it was set, it idled at 16deg, then ramped up to like 26 at mid revs and then backed off to like 24 at hi hi revs. No wonder it was running hot.

Threw the stator as far back as it goes and it now idles at about 9 and jumps up to 19 and then falls back to 16 or so.

So in order to get this thing to fall back to where I want it, I have to deal with a crappy idle and take off, only to gain a 2 degrees advance somewhere at mids?

I dunno, it seems like I would rather just run a flat timing, amirite? What other boxes do people use?

This thing has been around so long I feel like I am missing something here.(edited)

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

Some of those piecard kits for E50 need the ZA50 flywheel to get it to run correctly....look up some posts and maybe someone will post some good info on here...

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

Tracy Meade /

I don't know what the situation is, but the flywheel that came with my kit has the arrow pointing in the "wrong" (counter-clockwise) direction -- maybe that is what I got?

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

> Bob Selby Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Some of those piecard kits for E50 need the ZA50 flywheel to get it to

> run correctly....look up some posts and maybe someone will post some

> good info on here...

Or possibly flip the ignition coil?

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

Tracy Meade /

I guess the question currently is "is this the curve everyone else is seeing, or is mine doing weird stuff?"

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

OG Crazy Wayne /

You're running an after-market CD box and many of the boxes are designed to give less timing under 4,000 RPM for easier starting I suggest you set your max timing 4000-5000 RPM or whatever its peak RPM is and whatever you want it to be at at full retard set it they doing a little math to what you wanted to be and what you're trying to do there's a thread in hair done by Jay bot referring to the trigger and how he's actually using the trigger from the Moby Cheapo CDI that treats has for sale the one that came on your Cheapo system tends to put out too much voltage and drives the Box insane

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

Tracy Meade /

I think I did what you are saying ... I set it so it ends up where I want it at hi rpm.

I am actually using the motobecane hall sensor, I didn't know that would effect the curve.

The problem is that I idle way below 4000 rpm so my take off sucks because the timing is way retarded in that range.

I don't believe the solution lies in me "setting my timing" better, I guess the solution is either

a) use a different box

b) figure out how to modify the curve here so it isn't so crappy

c) go back to good ol' points and never look back(edited)

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

OG Crazy Wayne /

Sounds like you need to tune your clutch and probably many other things timing before jetting but without 100% of your setup info it's hard to assist you with your problem.

You need to try flipping the winding on the stator first the one that powers the Box not the trigger.(edited)

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

Tracy Meade /

I mean, I just told you the problem?

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

Tracy Meade /

What is the effect of flipping the coil? I can try it but it would be helpful to understand the concept here.

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

OG Crazy Wayne /

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

Tracy Meade /

ok

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

OG Crazy Wayne /

Think about it.

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

Tracy Meade /

do you know crazy wayne

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

Tracy Meade /

ok when you say flip the coil do you mean:

1) physically take off the coil, flip it over, reattach.

2) switch the sides of the soldered leads and ground straps

3) both of those

4) other

Like I said, I do not know what I am trying to accomplish here.

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

OG Crazy Wayne /

Better than most some say I'm his twin.

Now you're thinking go with number one.

And read this thread completely.

https://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/read.php?7,4278936(edited)

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

Tracy Meade /

Ok so I flipped the coil. When I flipped it, I moved the ground straps to "follow" the side that they were originally attached to.

So for example, there is a blue strap that is soldered to one side of the coil that is then grounded on one of mounting screws, and a brown strap that is mounted to the other side. When I flipped the coil reverse, those followed the side they were originally attatched to.

result: no spark

Image from iOS.jpg

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

OG Crazy Wayne /

Then you got one of the later ones that treats probably flipped before they shipped it.

Are your box has died.

Now go read that other thread on modifying the trigger pickup I don't suggest cutting the Stater alignment tabs off completely but maybe some to get a few degrees of Swing easy timing adjustment you will need to drill the hole in the flywheel to reach the screw without removing flywheel for small timing adjustments of a few degrees his best to stay within five degrees either way from Center as you want to catch the full flux of the coil winding on the stator.

In the early days on CDI pickups that used to have a step in the trigger so it had a low spot and then a step somewhat like the Tower of a castle the lower step which face the opposite of the flywheel Direction so as the voltage was thrown from the magnet at low RPM it would give less timing as the RPM went up the lower step would pick up enough voltage to trigger the ignition and Advance the timing it was a trick that worked quite well on for strokes. Your a2 stroke you want the opposite effect, but if your blade is too wide you'll end up getting a timing advancing when the RPM increases a little bit, if the tip is narrower you will get more precise timing from the trigger, I suggest cutting the back side down so that has the flywheel comes by it hits the high step first as the flywheel spins.

So you want the trailing Edge to be lower you can even try cutting the back side at a 45 ending at the center at the top that's one way of turning it in.

The Dual timing hpi's use a small resistor to get to timing curves off the trigger.

Another trick we used to use for getting a timing retard was to put a small diode in the trigger line it must be placed in the proper direction but the delay of the diode would actually give you a degree or two retard at 10,000 RPM depending on how fast the diode can switch.(edited)

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

Tracy Meade /

that picture is pre-flip btw, just for reference.

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

OG Crazy Wayne /

> Tracy Meade Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> that picture is pre-flip btw, just for reference.

You're just full of fuckry aren't you

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

Tracy Meade /

ok

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

Tracy Meade /

Thank you for the link to the thread about the triggers.

I guess what I am having trouble with is that I am not at the place yet where I am trying to hack performance out of this thing -- especially if I am hacking around some component that isn't acting as it should.

Is my takeaway here that the CDI box is bad? I have yet to hear if this is the same curve others are seeing on this setup.

tldr; should have bought the hpi(edited)

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

Tracy Meade /

From what you are telling me, is it possible I cut the end of the whole trigger too short on the motobecane pickup? Would that explain the very retarded firing at low rpm? (like the whole trigger is the lower step of the "castle tower")(edited)

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

having the pickup too far away will cause lower power from the pickup coil which might be too low at low rpms.

i fried a 2041 box a few years and opened it up- the capacitors in it are ultra weak (and also some crazy sub-china 3rd world garbage quality- the electrical engineer that was looking at me was like 'how are these even a thing')

my theory is that they are ultra low voltage because the way the 3055 is designed, it doesn't put out much power, when you hook them up to a regular ass CDI stator it way over-powers them, and when you hook it up to the wackadoo stock trigger coil that comes with the puch CDI stator it way-way overpowers them.

i would try putting the 10 dollar Jog box with curve on there, or a 3202, and see what it does. I just ordered some of those 3202 jbot specials from china and i'm thinking i might pair one with a 3055 piecard coil and see what it does?

Sorry none of that post helps you any. Sure try changing the coil air gap. Don't plan on like riding your moped across the country to realize your dreams of becoming an international rap sensation though.

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

Tracy Meade /

Don't tell me what I can't do

Thanks!

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

OG Crazy Wayne /

I hope you have a safe word

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

Tracy Meade /

Honestly, thinking I just put the damn points back on.

I have been running this bike on them for 15 years and they never left me stranded.

It ran better than before I switched to this piece of junk anyway.

I was looking for a dumb experiment not a diy CDI hackathon.(edited)

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

Tracy Meade /

If anyone is curious, putting the original pickup that came with the kit fixed this problem. I have curve close to what I expected.

I compared the length of the sensors, and it looks like how I cut the motobecane pickup, it was about .5mm shorter than the stock one.

Maybe this is what caused my problem? Makes sense? Maybe? I dunno it works now fuck it. Kinda breaks up at 9500 rpm tho

Thanks all!(edited)

Re: pietcard CDI ignition box - 2041 Puch treats CDI Party

OG Crazy Wayne /

You don't want to cut them shorter you want to cut it narrower

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