DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

Alex Hedrick /

Is it really worth it? or should I wait till treatland has some of the better ones in stock?

I really want to blow up my k-star 70cc kit and put a good reliable, ripping 70cc reed kit on my e50.. any suggestions? I have access to a small lathe and a surface grinder. I just dont want to have to do all that if I dont have to..

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Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

Alex Hedrick /

It runs great the way it is now.

Treats cdi kit.

K-star 70cc (case matched)

Now has a vm18 and polini filter.

MLM puch vm18 manifold.

Gearing 18×45 I believe.

Squish Is about 1.8mm I know that's big..

Base gasket up 2.5mm to clear exhaust port perfectly.

Topped out at about 42 gps'd.. I need more speed!

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

I feel like you should be getting a bit more speed with those parts.

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

Alex Hedrick /

That's what I'm saying! It has good low end, and pulls good through the rpms, but it's like it hits a wall at wide open.. aka 42mph.. forgot to mention I'm running a techno circuit pipe too..

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

Brandon Weiss (Detective brandon to you) /

42mph with 18x45 gearing is doodoo

Should be seeing 47-50mph.

Whats your compression?

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

My bet is on too much timing, squish is too big and compression is too high. Youre only revving to ~8k, the tecno is good until about 10k or so. Personally I havent had any good luck with the vm18 on a puch. My setups always ran a little weird in the top end, was always hard to tell if it was lean or not. I recommend the polini cp for every bike. They tune in so nicely.

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

Chöschi21 C.K. /

If you wan't a good 70cc Reed kit wich won't need Portig get a 65cc Reed kit from Polininini.

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

Alex Hedrick /

Compression is at 170ish.

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

Alex Hedrick /

I think you nailed it.. 8k seems to be where it hits the wall. setting the timing has been interesting because of the squashies. it's at about 22° with a degree wheel.. compression is 170ish. And the squish is 1.8..

If I bring the squish down some you think I could pull back the timing some? Aka letting it rev out a little more? I like how it pulls. (Definitely would like a better three shoe clutch) (running stock two shoe and with good amount of shoe left)

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

Joe Schuitema /

I had a puch magnum e50 with 16x40 gearing, 70cc airsal. A techno boss got me to 48mph, did a direct swap to a techno circuit. It had better midrange, but topped out at 42-43mph. I doubt the circuit pipe could rev out to 10,000rpm. I'd try swapping to an estroil and bump the timing back a few degrees to 16-18 btdc. Squish can be tighter but you'll gain more compression too.

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

tecno circuits are weird to me, seems like every bike i put one on the power band is totally different.

if you want facts on the athena ajh, there is a good thread 'athena ajh and clones' that just got bumped recently, check it out.

probably want to get your tuning dialed first. noting about that setup sounds 'off' but maybe try and borrow another pipe and see where it gets ya. I like those tecno circuits on stock ported cylinders and the 50cc tccd, but i've never run one on a kstar 45 and i have had weird results on tomos 70cc where they just wouldn't rev out no matter what.

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

Alex Hedrick /

Thanks! I did read through that thread and theres some good stuff in there.. I was just curious to see if I could get straight forward answers from people who have run em.. I'm thinking the techno just might be what the issue is.. i like the pipe for the looks and low end its got! But I will shop around and see about another low hitting pipe that WILL rev out aswell!

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

if you have the ability to hack/weld the tomos tecno estoril is a super blasty pipe on a budget with killer low end. the puch tecno not bad either but it won't rev out like the tomos one with the bigger 2 step header.

otherwise MLM, treats gigantic pipe, or get creative with something else, sky is the limit.

pretty much anything including a bullet will rev out better than that circuit pipe. once you get in the upper 40's you might have to give that kit a little more porting, i get the kstars and tccd and generic piston ports confused, but if i remember the kstar has the more conservative porting, cutting the skirt or biggering the intake port would probably go a long ways

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

Overpriced Parts /

> Alex Hedrick Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> That's what I'm saying! It has good low end, and pulls good through the

> rpms, but it's like it hits a wall at wide open.. aka 42mph.. forgot to

> mention I'm running a techno circuit pipe too..

That pipe can rev over 9k so I believe you’re hitting a wall due to incorrect jetting/ tuning, A reed type cylinder or kit if not jetted or tune correctly just hits a wall just won’t rev out,

Most times people who use Mikuni carburetors don’t tune in the last 20% correctly because it seems to work good literally out of the box,

it doesn’t give much indication that it’s not fully tuned whereas a dellorto phbg carburetor most times will let you know right away if you’re not fully tuned

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

Sick, I was wondering who had that bike nowadays.

Tecno circuits are the worst and it's definitely your problem. They are really great if you are on a za50 and you are trying to keep your rpms down for the sake of the crank

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

I wouldnt say the circuit is the worst, I have had them rip in the past. The worst is for sure the biturbo, who cares how they perform. They are god damn obnoxious. Personally my favorite pipe these days is the stock magnum. On my chopper I have one of those 28mm stock plus pipes and it is pretty nice, a bit loud, but nice.

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

There are a ton of circuit pipes available. And on every single engine, of all the circuit pipes available, the tecno is the worst one.

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

I too prefer the prima circuit, but there isnt anything wrong with the tecno. Well, aside from the baffle inevitably busting off.

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

> Graham Motzing Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> tecno circuits are weird to me, seems like every bike i put one on the

> power band is totally different.

i've had them on stock ported cylinders where they hit this crazy power band at 8-10k and just scream, i've had them on 70cc tomos where they won't get past 7500 like they hit a wall, and i had one on my DR vespa pulling 10k+ rpms and shredding, but that same pipe on the same bottom end with a polini (not race) 43 kit shut down at 8k and wouldn't go past that for anything.

like i said, they are super weird, total wild card pipe... that is why i quit buying them a long time ago. after that tomos i built... it was like 42, 43 with the tecno, put on a estoril and bam 50 mph bike without any other changes.

i'm always more apt to swap pipes if a bike isn't performing the way i want to, because lets face it, they are easier to switch out, if you don't want to take the plunge buying one maybe find someones to borrow, or grab a used one on b/s. its always pretty easy to re-sell a low mileage pipe on there.

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

Jonathan Feldman /

Man what a thread. I love it.

To start off, I agree with those saying the tecno circuit isn't a screamer. Cause it just plain isn't. I've had it on a handful of kits and it kinda does the budget circuit pipe thing. AKA bangin mid range and topping out early. I feel like I could only get 9250 max rpm outta a tecno circuit on a good day. Like 9k is really all they're gonna put out in my experience. Should def spin further than 8k but man that last 1000 rpms is gonna be after the pipe has ran out of steam. With that being said, tecno circuit is the fuckin shit. I fux with it way harder than the proma. It seems ever so slightly built better and if my memory serves me right.. you can drain the tranny without fuckin with the pipe.

Secondly, that 2.5mm that you lifted the cylinder to clear the exh port has completely altered your exhaust port timing. I dunno what some of yall think about 2.5mm on the exhaust port but in my world that's a pretty significant exhaust port timing change. Like you can lift a cylinder maybe 1mm without fuckin with the OG timings too much BUT man after you go past that you've created an entirely new tuning scenario when compared to the OG timings if the piston magically cleared exh port at bdc. If I were you I'd break out the degree wheel and get a concise number for what my exhaust port duration is in degrees. With that number you can further assess how much you've moved the powerband upward. Circuit pipe with gnarly exhaust port timing is a weird tuning combo. It's like the pipe wants to hit low but the cylinder wants to revvvvvv. Some people swear by it though. OG riggsby is a huge advocate of AJH with circuit pipes. Which makes zero sense to me but fuck.. he's the man when it comes to AJH.

Third, 1.8mm is a lot in my book. Yes you already know that but I still had to say it. My piece of shit peugeot has a squish of 1.6mm and I was giving it the stink eye heavily when I was building it. I'm not too big on kstar for this exact reason. In my experience it's always needed hella base spacing ( like the 2.5mm you did ) and then a whole 'nother shitshow to get the proper squish. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know the exact tuning effects of a big ol honkin Texas squish band but regardless I'd work on gettin it down.

Fourth, AJH is an entirely different rabbit hole. That shit is some guru e50 screamer tech. I'm sure you've read the threads but man after you get the proper piston for it... that bitch needs a deeeeeeeep countersunk head. Once again, riggsby is the guy to talk to. He has multiple heads countersunk differently for that AJH life.

Ok. I'm almost done.

If I had to go a certain direction on this i would tackle your base spacing / squish issue. 9/10 people don't base space their kstar and they run well. Yes they never clear exh port but.. I guess thats how it goes down sometimes.

You got this! Keep fightin the good fight. And as guru once said ( rest in peace ) - " breathe, study lessons and build your inner power "

XOXO - jon

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

Jonathan Feldman /

Just realized I put guru twice in my reply.

First guru meant it's a puch route that is usually only for the knowledgeable.

Second guru is referencing the leader of the rap group gangstarr.

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

Charles Cole (OFMC) /

OK, here's my spin on why some circuit pipes work better than others. And some other pipes, as well. I've noticed, not only on circuit pipes, but many of the pipes, that the first weld junction, where the header pipe if just slid inside the next section & welded up. To me, that just kills the returning wave right when it's needed the most. I know I can't be the only one who has thought about this. Just by looking at how the pipe is constructed doesn't leave any doubt this is happening. The pipes are super cheap, and for there to be any profit for all that's involved, they can't take the time to do a proper fitment at the most crucial place on the whole pipe. Anybody with me on this?

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

Alex Hedrick /

You know this bike?!?! But I have to agree.. i thought I'd give it a try, and I do like it. I just hate the wall it hits. I can tell itll give me more, something just wont let it..

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

Alex Hedrick /

I'm going to take my head to work tomorrow or just go in on Sunday and cut it down about .6mm to give me about 1.2mm squish? Haha I'm gunna mess with it and see what's up.. yeah I know the piston was in the exhaust port when I put it all together.. but I was excited. And said fuck it. Ran it like that twice.. said nope. Spaced it up so all the ports open and just clears the exhaust. Kind of bummed I found out about this issue with these after I got it.. whatever more fun right?! I'm thinking about scooping this fucker up..

https://www.treatland.tv/puch-radical-SIDEBLEED-estoril-performance-pipe-p/puch-side-bl

I like that it has an adjustable end bleed.. for that extra tunability haha

So.

The plan..

I'll start with that pipe, unless you guys think I should go a different route. And see where that puts me. Then go on the cutting the head down. Mess with timing more after that.. with the new pipe!

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

Alex Hedrick /

I just started it up, let it warm up and did a lap around the block. Same thing. Hit that wall.. I put up on the stand and was revving it out, once the rpms get up and I hold it wide open, it wants to die out almost.. huh...

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

Like I said, vm18 has given me a bunch of trouble on a kstar reed kit on an e50 before. The Fuel would cavitate and start foaming over at about 9k, it was really annoying. I personally havent used one since, but we have had some bad luck with customers vm18s and vm20s not working out of the box.

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

Brandon Weiss (Detective brandon to you) /

> Daniel '' Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Like I said, vm18 has given me a bunch of trouble on a kstar reed kit on

> an e50 before. The Fuel would cavitate and start foaming over at about

> 9k, it was really annoying. I personally havent used one since, but we

> have had some bad luck with customers vm18s and vm20s not working out of

> the box.

That's why i try to stick to spigot style carbs that mount with rubber couplers/hoses, theoretocally they help reduce vibration, never had an issue.

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

Alex Hedrick /

This is what I'm talking about..

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

woah that sounds lean, if you fully open it up and it bogs out like that, its usually lean.

is that also a 'treats cdi'... i've seen them go weird about 50 different ways, not saying its a likely culprit but i'm always suspicious of them.

If i were you, i'd keep going bigger on the jet until it four strokes.

VM18's pretty much always take a 78-90 jet. But, as others have said, they are deceptive, they will run 'pretty ok' with the wrong jet and people think they are tuned and quit trying.

that fuel foaming thing... it does sound like this when it happens... hits that resonance point and just goes completely lean like crazy. I dunno i'd keep playing with jetting, maybe even float height. It can happen to any carb and for sure daniel has more experience on this stuff than i do, i just haven't seen a VM mik do it and especially at that low of rpms. When i've seen peugeot PHBG's do it, its at like 11k and up.

Re: DMP ajh 70cc reed kit from treats

Alex Hedrick /

I believe I've got a 90 main jet and a 17.5 idle in there already. And yes it is a treats cdi.. I already had a bad pietcard box. Got a new one and it made a world of difference. Didnt even run like this before. I've got a big range of jets for the carb so I can try going bigger on the main.. and see what happens maybe? I tried to order that pipe from treats lastnight but something was up with their site and it wouldn't take my card info.. maybe it's a sign.. I'm missing something. Haha

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