Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

This will probably lead to a war zone but here we go.

I've purchased an Av50 because I was sick of my lame 102.

I want to use it to ride around town and would be happy with 45mph.

I've read up on all the av7 , av10 threads about pros and cons of running an Av7 74CC airsall or an Av10 50cc Doppler.

It sounds like keeping the Av7 with a 74CC will give me torque and 45mph.

Going down the Av10 50CC road sounds a lot more complicated because of the tuning.

My experience in tuning mopeds when it comes to variating and carb is pretty slim.

I have no issues with the mechanics of assembling dissasembling etc.

I've already chopped off the rear end and will be relocating the shocks once I get them on monday.

Can someone sway me either Av7 Airsal 74CC or Av10 Doppler 50cc.

What is my budget? Well that I'm unsure. I'm okay with spending more if the Av10 will be "worth it".

I need to put in my treats order by tonight so fire away.

What I'm thinking about for the Av10 route so far.

motobecane av10 bottom end ADVENTURE

motobecane doppler 50cc cylinder kit for av10

dellorto PHBG 19mm DS carburetor

motobecane doppler 50cc head for av7 and av10 (no decompression)

motobecane AV10 athena carbon reed block

motobecane AV10 shorty intake - PHBG

motobecane CDI ignition le partie (edited)

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

for me it all comes down to the pipe. if you wanna go high rpm ripper stats build the 50 with a pipe that gets in your way and leaks and breaks all the time, if you wanna build a stock-ish daily driver type run a stock modified pipe and the 45mm airsal av7 with a 15 sha and go 50 all day long.

also you gotta think about a clutch pulley with the av10.

or option #3 would be to build a 'stock' AV10 which would definitely gt you 45 no problem and let you ease your way into AV10 problems.

moby... they a weird beast dude.

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

I liked my mildly ported stock av10 cylinder much better than my current doppler for daily rider status. Stock cylinder with just the exhaust port opened up a couple mm, a pipe (doppler, rgd, leo vince), and 15.15 sha will do a solid 45-50 reliably even with the heavy stock clutch. Just depends how well you put it together.

I think there are only Pros to going with the more modern engine.

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

Thanks guys.

I really don't want to run something other than the stock Variator and pulley right now.

Tough decisions. (edited)

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

av7 route so u dont go nuts.

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

> pat splat Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> av7 route so u dont go nuts.

Yeah. It's been decided. Av7 74CC to start out.

Was already overwhelmed by all the av10 tuning.

Will graduate to that later if I want.

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

Jonathan Feldman /

Feel like there's been a lot of Moby threads lately or maybe I'm just starting to notice em. I'm glad you did your fair share of searching for info before postin' this.

The only thing I would add is that the ripper av10 life is not for the faint of heart. Many people have tried / failed and ended up parting out their Moby dreams in favor of another moped.

I like av10s a lot on a general level. They assemble nicely / don't usually need a case match / perform very well even with the tiny stock reed block. Additionally I think they can be moderately reliable after you sort out the 5832939593 issues that inherently come with mobys.

Goin the av7 route is definitely less of a headache. I had a 50cc airsal av7 with simonini pipe that was reliable as fuck 'n enjoyable to ride... untill the exhaust threads finally let go. Afterwards i got the av10 itch and the rest is history.

Last thing, I see that youre in Campbell. I spend a lot of time in San Jose. If you ever want Moby tips let me know. I've fought many French demons.

XOXO Jon

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

> Francois Labat Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > pat splat Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > av7 route so u dont go nuts.

>

> Yeah. It's been decided. Av7 74CC to start out.

>

> Was already overwhelmed by all the av10 tuning.

>

> Will graduate to that later if I want.

If your overwhelmed don’t got 74cc. Get the 70cc kit. Way more forgiving for a first timer. All the ports open and close with stock base gasket. With the 74cc you have to deal with base gasket spacing to get the ports to fully open.

70cc

If you get this get the all metal head gasket.....the fiber ones suck.

If you do get the 74cc look into getting thick gasket paper. Treats sells some that has different thickness. I can’t remember what thickness we would use. I think 2mm. Make sure you soak it in oil and torque it correctly. Then torque it after the first few rides. Make sure you get the all metal head gasket and throw that fiber one it comes with in the trash. I have never seen one not leak. The are other thread as about the 74cc kit spacing and such. This is just what we do to make the 74cc kit work easily with the AV7.

I honestly would do what Blake said. AV10 is a better platform. (edited)

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

This is an interesting question.

There are several threads discussing this. It seems the big Moby motors are hard to keep cool and vibrate. On the other hand, going AV10 can get spendy.

There is a lot less work and expense going big AV7 rather than starting a new AV10.

The AV10 motors have had more development by the suppliers than the AV7 and the Airsal kit seems well regarded and good value.

There is a solution for everything on a Moby but it can cost you.

My 50cc AV7 gets low to mid 40’s with a 15.15 SHA, Doppler pipe and a Malossi Varplus.

I am building a 50cc Malossi AV10 motor for the hell of it. I have two other reed valve bikes, 125 and 350 cc and like the way they rev and pull. The fun of these old bikes is doing what you want to do, not what people say you should.

Please post with what you decide Francois.

Russ.

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

Thanks for the input everyone.

I'm the type of person that want's to go big right from the start. Buy it all and just send it. What I realized though is with the Av10 motor I had in my cart, doppler head, doppler 50cc cylinder, 19PHGB etc etc. That was just the beginning.

If I was truly going to make this thing a screamer, I would need the pipe and then the Er3, and then probably a clutch pulley. Then I would lose the pedals. (which I wanna keep) and THEN I would be going 60 with crappy brakes. So I need disc rotors.

List goes on and on. I pulled the trigger on the 74 CC because I will be able to get on the road and confident sooner than a long term av10 build. Once I conquer this and get bored I'll get an Av10. I would maybe have swayed the AV10 route if I had a known resource here that could help accelerate the build process.

Anyways, I did not want to miss the treats sale. This is what I got.

I might start a little build thread since I'm in the process of relocating the rear shocks on her. Still waiting for those to arrive at my doorstep.

motobecane av7 airsal 74cc 47mm kit

motobecane 70cc head gasket - aluminum

motobecane av7 av10 crank, bearings n seals GOODY PAK

motobecane CDI ignition le partie

motobecane AV7 SHA 15.15 carburetor DELUXE party

70-80 main jets

motobecane EBR forks - BLACK

motor mount bushings

trail tech VAPOR hi tech computer tach, speedo, and more - BLACK

cable party pack

grips

handle bars

Think thats it.

Will be decent little tinkering time

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

> Baron Von Hamilton Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Francois Labat Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > > pat splat Wrote:

>

> >

>

> > > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> >

>

> > > av7 route so u dont go nuts.

>

> >

>

> > Yeah. It's been decided. Av7 74CC to start out.

>

> >

>

> > Was already overwhelmed by all the av10 tuning.

>

> >

>

> > Will graduate to that later if I want.

>

> If your overwhelmed don’t got 74cc. Get the 70cc kit. Way more

> forgiving for a first timer. All the ports open and close with stock

> base gasket. With the 74cc you have to deal with base gasket spacing to

> get the ports to fully open.

>

> 70cc

>

> If you get this get the all metal head gasket.....the fiber ones suck.

>

> If you do get the 74cc look into getting thick gasket paper. Treats

> sells some that has different thickness. I can’t remember what

> thickness we would use. I think 2mm. Make sure you soak it in oil and

> torque it correctly. Then torque it after the first few rides. Make

> sure you get the all metal head gasket and throw that fiber one it comes

> with in the trash. I have never seen one not leak. The are other

> thread as about the 74cc kit spacing and such. This is just what we do

> to make the 74cc kit work easily with the AV7.

>

> I honestly would do what Blake said. AV10 is a better platform.

I got the 74CC and I got the metal base gasket.

Any tips ?

I'm going to see what it looks like when it gets here. Gonna need to case match.

I know it has no decomp hole.

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

> Jonathan Feldman Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Feel like there's been a lot of Moby threads lately or maybe I'm just

> starting to notice em. I'm glad you did your fair share of searching for

> info before postin' this.

>

> The only thing I would add is that the ripper av10 life is not for the

> faint of heart. Many people have tried / failed and ended up parting out

> their Moby dreams in favor of another moped.

>

> I like av10s a lot on a general level. They assemble nicely / don't

> usually need a case match / perform very well even with the tiny stock

> reed block. Additionally I think they can be moderately reliable after

> you sort out the 5832939593 issues that inherently come with mobys.

>

> Goin the av7 route is definitely less of a headache. I had a 50cc airsal

> av7 with simonini pipe that was reliable as fuck 'n enjoyable to ride...

> untill the exhaust threads finally let go. Afterwards i got the av10

> itch and the rest is history.

>

> Last thing, I see that youre in Campbell. I spend a lot of time in San

> Jose. If you ever want Moby tips let me know. I've fought many French

> demons.

>

> XOXO Jon

Awesome!

Yeah lets meet up sometime.

I'll PM u my number

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

> Russ H Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> This is an interesting question.

>

> There are several threads discussing this. It seems the big Moby motors

> are hard to keep cool and vibrate. On the other hand, going AV10 can get

> spendy.

>

> There is a lot less work and expense going big AV7 rather than starting

> a new AV10.

>

> The AV10 motors have had more development by the suppliers than the AV7

> and the Airsal kit seems well regarded and good value.

>

> There is a solution for everything on a Moby but it can cost you.

>

> My 50cc AV7 gets low to mid 40’s with a 15.15 SHA, Doppler pipe and a

> Malossi Varplus.

>

> I am building a 50cc Malossi AV10 motor for the hell of it. I have two

> other reed valve bikes, 125 and 350 cc and like the way they rev and

> pull. The fun of these old bikes is doing what you want to do, not what

> people say you should.

>

> Please post with what you decide Francois.

>

> Russ.

That malossi av10 is going to put a big smile on your face....

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

I think you'll be happy with the big kit AV7 setup.

I built a 45mm airsal, upgrade crank, 4 ball ramp plate, 15 SHA, aftermarket crank, engine a few years ago, it had a stock exhaust. Ran great, pulled right up to 45 and got there really quick, then that was about it, but it was perfect. Doesn't go much faster tan

Keeping the stock pipe is so nice, that can't be overstated. The pain in the ass factor from a big swingy pipe is a huge turnoff for me on a a daily driver type ped.

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

Interesting comment on the stock pipe.

I forget that pipes on 2 strokes are a huge factor.

I wanted the Doppler pipe but I see that those can raise my temps. If you suggest using the stock pipe, I'll take that advice and run the stock pipe. (plus it saves me a few bucks for now).

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

> Russ H Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> The fun of these old bikes is doing what you want to do, not what

> people say you should.

>

> Russ.

Good point Russ!

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

let me preface this by saying that it is the minority opinion here! most people just want to spend a bunch of money and buy parts that don't make sense together trying to go as fast as possible. a simple well thought-out build will beat them every time and keep running much longer.

big pipes are great for high rpm, but most of these high rpm moby pipes like the doppler don't even kick in until 9000 + rpm. those piston port av7 kits can get pushed that hard, but with a stock variator and a small carb there is really no point unless you want to go over 55. plus the 70 kits just don't rev as smooth and high, they have more vibrations and you get problems like carb foaming or clamp cracking

the pipe you run (especially with a big swinging french pipe) will be the single most important part of your setup.

like i said, i have built that airsal, stock pipe setup and it was great. sure it didn't rev out super high but it was quiet, reliable, and very healthy runner. just like it had come from the factory that way. probably could have dicked with the gearing and variator to go 50 but it was just pleasant the way it was.

the 4 ball ramp plate is pretty essential, so try to find that if you can. they were out of production for a minute i thought.

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

> Francois Labat Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Russ H Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > The fun of these old bikes is doing what you want to do, not what

>

> > people say you should.

>

> >

>

> > Russ.

>

> Good point Russ!

also, that is stupid! i mean whatever go for it, its your funeral, but this isn't a choose-your-own-adventure book, these parts all work together as a system, you can pick the best pipe, best kit, best carb and best variator but that doesn't mean they will all work together. certain combos have been proven to work good together because they make sense. you can go back and read 10 years of posts on this websites of dummies whining that they bought parts that don't make sense together and now their shit don't run good.

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

> Graham Motzing Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> you can go back and read 10 years of posts on this websites of

> dummies whining that they bought parts that don't make sense together

> and now their shit don't run good.

>

lol!

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

> Graham Motzing Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> let me preface this by saying that it is the minority opinion here!

> most people just want to spend a bunch of money and buy parts that don't

> make sense together trying to go as fast as possible. a simple well

> thought-out build will beat them every time and keep running much

> longer.

>

> big pipes are great for high rpm, but most of these high rpm moby pipes

> like the doppler don't even kick in until 9000 + rpm. those piston port

> av7 kits can get pushed that hard, but with a stock variator and a small

> carb there is really no point unless you want to go over 55. plus the

> 70 kits just don't rev as smooth and high, they have more vibrations and

> you get problems like carb foaming or clamp cracking

>

> the pipe you run (especially with a big swinging french pipe) will be

> the single most important part of your setup.

>

> like i said, i have built that airsal, stock pipe setup and it was

> great. sure it didn't rev out super high but it was quiet, reliable,

> and very healthy runner. just like it had come from the factory that

> way. probably could have dicked with the gearing and variator to go 50

> but it was just pleasant the way it was.

>

> the 4 ball ramp plate is pretty essential, so try to find that if you

> can. they were out of production for a minute i thought.

I'm running the 47mm (74CC) not the 45 (70CC).

Had I known I would have gone 45 since most people think it's slightly better.

One of the issues is that my stock av7 head has a decomp valve.

The 74CC cylinder does not.

I have no idea what the 4 ball ramp is but I'll look for it.

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

Stock guide on av7 models is 3 balls, 4 balls so you can remove two to get it to shift later. Its a good mod for even a stock bike.

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

Rick Bergsma /

> Francois Labat Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks for the input everyone.

>

> I'm the type of person that want's to go big right from the start. Buy

> it all and just send it. What I realized though is with the Av10 motor I

> had in my cart, doppler head, doppler 50cc cylinder, 19PHGB etc etc.

> That was just the beginning.

>

> If I was truly going to make this thing a screamer, I would need the

> pipe and then the Er3, and then probably a clutch pulley. Then I would

> lose the pedals. (which I wanna keep) and THEN I would be going 60 with

> crappy brakes. So I need disc rotors.

>

> List goes on and on. I pulled the trigger on the 74 CC because I will be

> able to get on the road and confident sooner than a long term av10

> build. Once I conquer this and get bored I'll get an Av10. I would maybe

> have swayed the AV10 route if I had a known resource here that could

> help accelerate the build process.

>

> Anyways, I did not want to miss the treats sale. This is what I got.

>

> I might start a little build thread since I'm in the process of

> relocating the rear shocks on her. Still waiting for those to arrive at

> my doorstep.

>

>

>

> motobecane av7 airsal 74cc 47mm kit

>

> motobecane 70cc head gasket - aluminum

>

> motobecane av7 av10 crank, bearings n seals GOODY PAK

>

> motobecane CDI ignition le partie

>

> motobecane AV7 SHA 15.15 carburetor DELUXE party

>

> 70-80 main jets

>

> motobecane EBR forks - BLACK

>

> motor mount bushings

>

> trail tech VAPOR hi tech computer tach, speedo, and more - BLACK

>

> cable party pack

>

> grips

>

> handle bars

>

> Think thats it.

>

> Will be decent little tinkering time

Don't forget to order the grade 8 screw upgrade for the LePartie CDI ,

the screws that it comes with are crap (edited)

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

4 ball is discontinued but we bought out a huge polini dealer 2 years ago and have had stock on them since. 4 ball polini guide here!

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

> Rick Bergsma Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

>

>

> Don't forget to order the grade 8 screw upgrade for the LePartie CDI ,

>

> the screws that it comes with are crap

Is it really that bad?

I didn't see that until today and my stuff is arriving soon.

I dont wanna make an order just for that. Maybe I will think of other shit before making another order. (edited)

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

> Blake MD No PM Plz Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> 4 ball is discontinued but we bought out a huge polini dealer 2 years

> ago and have had stock on them since. 4 ball polini guide here!

Nice I saw this earlier while googling.

Will most likely order.

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

> Francois Labat Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Rick Bergsma Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Don't forget to order the grade 8 screw upgrade for the LePartie CDI

> ,

>

> >

>

> > the screws that it comes with are crap

>

> Is it really that bad?

>

> I didn't see that until today and my stuff is arriving soon.

>

> I dont wanna make an order just for that. Maybe I will think of other

> shit before making another order.

Screws and such should be readily available at your local hardware store . Just take an example along to get the correct match .

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

wow blake i didn't realize, that is rad rad rad! i almost want to buy a couple to hoard them.

yeah the four ball ramp plate (with two balls in it) is a mandatory mod for the stock variator, pretty much the only thing you can do to get it to work better.

i say 'pretty much' because there are some Jbot threads where he goes balls-out on modding clutch pads, springs, all kinda cool stuff to make it work better, but for starters the 4 ball is key.

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

Why is 4 ball better?

Do you just do 4 ball and run 2 balls?

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

oh yeah duh, 2 out of the 4 balls means less weight so you can achieve higher rpms and faster take off.

Re: Av7 74CC or Av10 50CC (persuade me)

> Graham Motzing Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> oh yeah duh, 2 out of the 4 balls means less weight so you can achieve

> higher rpms and faster take off.

Graham I think I have one. If I can find it I’ll send it to you. I never use it.

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