Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

my lack of deep personal experience with these types of slippery situations is pretty obvious, still waiting on Frank for a firm recommendation on a brand/type of oil to use.

i will readily admit i'm out of my league when it comes to going 70 on an fa-50.

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Wayne’s in the desert taking airplanes n gliders apart to build a salt flat moped bonneville racer.

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Okay now that we know what your preferred flavor of Nyquil in the never ending battle of red vs green, how about your opinion on gofast oils?

I really like canola, but ive heard people swear by safflower. Never but extra virgin olive tho, it's a total scam

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

You guys know the oil goes in the transmission right?

I like peanut oil for frying my turkeys, but I’m pretty sure the Mr. Fusion can run on any kind of oil or even beer.

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

red oill or blue oill

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

> Derek Stahl Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> You guys know the oil goes in the transmission right?

>

> I like peanut oil for frying my turkeys, but I’m pretty sure the Mr.

> Fusion can run on any kind of oil or even beer.

>

> https://greenprophet.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/mr-fusion-green-prophet.jpg

You bring up a good point with the MR FUSION, I wonder why he didn't decide to gear it down a bit further to get the full 88 MPH? That does seem a bit unrealistic now that I think about it, what was I thinking.

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

> frank v Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> ok graham thanks. if using green then i see little use for synthetic

> additives due to the castor oil content. syntetic additives are not

> worse however.

>

> the red is superior to the green for its injection qualities. the oil

> is slightly less protection of extreme heat so the synthetic additives

> are better than none at all.

>

> ---

>

> anyone here using injection with green oil and head temps below 250f

> should be using the red instead.

Forgive me for my ignorance, but I'm not actually sure what color my oil is? I think it's usually like tanish brownish color? Where can I find the green oils? Or does green mean like good for the environment green? Like a metaphor?

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

I run Lucas Semi-Synthetic 2-Cycle oil through the pump on my FA50 and premix it for my Simplex . It looks kinda blue to me .

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

How does this work for the color blind? Is there a smell test?

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

they often put colored dyes like blue or red in to make it more obvious that it's not honey.

that way when you mix it with your gas you can see the color in the gas mix and say OK I didn't just put honey in my gasoline (because that can be bad for certain types of engines or injector systems)

and you can also tell it apart from unmixed gas because of the Kool-Aid type coloring. like you can say: this doesn't look red enough so my engine will run hotter and that translates to poorer thermodynamic efficiency (greater deltaT) once you've accounted for convective heat losses from the fins at a constant ambient temperature.

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

> Ike Pipe Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> How does this work for the color blind? Is there a smell test?

Ipone makes a strawberry scented oil so the color blind can make sure they are using red oil (red was faster right? I forget) vs. honey (honey is pretty sweet though).

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

oh man amsoil interceptor or whatever its called (something really tuff and macho sounding for sure) is honey colored... i have mixed that up before and gotten some really bad tasting tea.

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Most sweaty dudes prefer to use penetrating oil

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Wow, a lot of hilarious banter here... glad my thread could be the sounding board for all of your oil disagreements lol Now back to the topic at hand: 70mph on a heavily modded Suzuki.

A few things I want to know:

-Port Layout/Timings that were mentioned earlier... are you referring to when the exhaust port is uncovered by the piston in relation to when the intake ports are uncovered? If so, I understand that opening the exhaust port up on the top side would increase power at higher rpms but sacrifice power and torque at lower rpms. Hence why a lot of 2strokes have Power Valves that open the exhaust port up at higher rpms to create more power but stay closed at lower rpms to not sacrifice power down low. Are you suggesting that I grind out the exhaust port to expose it sooner in the piston's down-stroke? Wouldn't doing this result in having to run much stiffer primary and 2speed clutch springs to avoid the lower rpm range where there is now a loss in low end power/torque?

-Blowdown. I know it's measured in degrees of crank rotation but not sure about much beyond that. Enlighten me oh wise ones

-I'm sure I'll find out some more 2stroke performance terms as you all banter back and forth

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Mikey Antonakakis /

Brent, you've got a lot to learn. That's not a bad thing, but you need to put in some work and time. Go find the Jennings book and read it - it isn't perfect, but it is a good starting point to start understanding these things. For the time being, you should set your expectations a good bit lower. 50mph would be a good first milestone for you, and should be towards the upper limit of what your cylinder is capable of.

Have you ridden your current setup? How does it perform at the moment?

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Mikey Antonakakis /

Jennings Book (edited)

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

70 mph is expensive and complicated from a "50cc" bike. Ignore the frames and just pay attention to 2 stroke and displacement and see what it took these folks to hit those speeds, and those are all with CVTs.

http://49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/11206/scoot-speed-list

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Why did I even read past 3 posts. How did i make it this far

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Douglas Binder /

I took a look at the scooter speed list. The fastest 50cc scooter was 53mph. As someone who studies how to go fast, I found this interesting. To get into the 70mph range, the smallest displacement was 70cc, which is a 40% increase from 50cc.

Of course, a scooter isn't nearly as aerodynamic as my bike. Still I'm only at 61mph after a mile run up.

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

I think you guys are all missing the point here that gearing is the key once you have a potent enough engine. I know my Aprilia RS50 makes more horsepower than the Suzuki does stock but I'd like to think that with the mods I've done to the Suzuki and the fact that it's got 20% more displacement now that it should be close to the stock RS50. Then the only difference really is the gearing, and the Aprilia can hit 80 in 6th gear, with a nice powerband from about 7,500-11/12,000. Getting 9k out of the Suzuki should really be no problem and with my gearing that equals 70 in 2nd gear

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

And that 80mph was achievable with the bike 'naked' as pictured so it's not like the aerodynamics of the full fairings played into it's ability to hit 80. I did have to tuck down tho

20841141_10108784875635738_5588631153915502446_n.jpg

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

> Mikey Antonakakis Wrote:

> Have you ridden your current setup? How does it perform at the moment?

Mikey, no I haven't ridden the bike yet as we're in the middle of winter here in Indiana and I'm still finishing the build. I will first ride it (or have a test rider) with the clutches in the current configuration (red Malossi springs in the Primary and stock springs in the 2speed) but I'm anticipating having to switch to the blue or even black Malossi springs in the primary and switching the stock primary springs onto the 2speed clutch (or even the Malossi red or blue springs). If the primary springs are too small I might explore either different Malossi springs or lightening the clutch shoes in order to get the 2speed clutch to engage where I need it to

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Mikey Antonakakis /

Brent, that kit does not have the timing or the port area to support your goals. Find a picture of an RS50 cylinder, it is very very different than what you've got.

Often, with moped motors, going bigger displacement gives less potential to make power because your transfers get smaller as your bore gets bigger.

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

> Mikey Antonakakis Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Brent, that kit does not have the timing or the port area to support

> your goals. Find a picture of an RS50 cylinder, it is very very

> different than what you've got.

>

> Often, with moped motors, going bigger displacement gives less potential

> to make power because your transfers get smaller as your bore gets

> bigger.

I'll have to take a look at the RS50 cylinder, but I agree that it's most likely a better, more powerful design. That being said, however, the RS engine (Minarelli AM6) produces 8.16hp from what I've been able to find. According to the mopedwiki for Performance Tuning a Suzuki (https://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Performance_Tuning_a_Suzuki) there was a 45mm/60cc kit with carbon fiber reeds and a 16mm carburetor that would make 8.5hp. If that power level truly is possible with a 45mm/60cc combination I can likely swap my RS50 carb onto the bike and then only have to tune the clutches to meet my goal, as I already have the Dual Stage reeds and my custom downdraft intake.

Does anybody know where I can find more info on this kit that supposedly makes 8.5hp? The original Danish website seems to no longer exist. See below:

Another 45mm kit, carbon fiber reeds, 16mm carburetors etc. 8.5 HP!!!

http://www.protunahandels.de/products.asp?c=310842377&n=19065927

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Mikey Antonakakis /

Yes but my point is that *your* 60cc kit is not capable of that power without some really serious porting. It is basically a stock cylinder with a larger bore.

And 8.5hp is not enough for 70mph.

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Mikey Antonakakis /

Let me try to explain it this way: power = force * velocity. The "force" in the equation is largely a function of aerodynamic drag, which increases with a factor of speed squared. So if you double your speed, you have 4x more drag. But the "power" required to go that 2x faster speed is force multiplied by speed, so to go twice as fast, you need eight times more power. It doesn't matter what your gearing is, if you don't make enough power you cannot meet your goal.

I would expect your upgrades to get you roughly double the power of a stock bike - if you could do 30mph on a stock setup, with twice as much power you will go about 25% faster, which means roughly 40mph... Does this sound familiar?

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

> Mikey Antonakakis Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Yes but my point is that *your* 60cc kit is not capable of that power

> without some really serious porting. It is basically a stock cylinder

> with a larger bore.

>

> And 8.5hp is not enough for 70mph.

I guess than explain to me how it's enough in the case of the Aprilia?

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Mikey Antonakakis /

A stock RS50 does not go 80mph...

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

> Mikey Antonakakis Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> A stock RS50 does not go 80mph...

Granted mine isn't stock but when it was it would do 70 all day.

So how does 8.16-8.5hp equal 70mph in the case of the RS50?

Sorry, you can't reply to this topic. It has been closed by simon.