Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Lastly with the crank installed. Lots of room for the fuel/air to go both around the crank and through it to get to the transfer ports. Less bends and a more direct path = better flow and hopefully more power and rpms

20180125_203848.jpg

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Mikey Antonakakis /

That's fine and all, but what are your port timings? You are only focusing on one end of the port... I found a port map of the cylinder you've got, it's almost identical to the stock cylinder in terms of port layout/timing. This means you cannot expect to make 4x more power unless you do some very intensive porting - and from all you've said so far, I think that will be well over your head.

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

yeah dude, smoothing intake flow and removing obstructions is important, but you're not really talking about any of the things that dramatically affect power output. What are your estimated event timings going to be? Blowdown? exhaust tuned length and dimensions?

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

i'm more concerned about synthetic or conventional two stroke, typically you should run a conventional (mineral) two stroke oil that is TCW-3 rated in an oil injector with cast iron cylinder, but at these speeds you may want to consider a synthetic oil that is compatable with oil injectors

it sounds like you're not putting much thought into the oil you are going to use and whether or not you're going to use a funnel to get it into the reservior, you might have to upgrade your oil injector hoses to handle higher volume.

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Dirty30 Dillon /

> alex . Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Next

>

> I

>

> Tucked

>

> Rigorously!

>

> Oh,

>

> Unachievable

>

> Speed!

I almost missed this gem, among the boring and tepid moped pictures.

Alex knows the light

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

> Graham Motzing Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> i'm more concerned about synthetic or conventional two stroke, typically

> you should run a conventional (mineral) two stroke oil that is TCW-3

> rated in an oil injector with cast iron cylinder, but at these speeds

> you may want to consider a synthetic oil that is compatable with oil

> injectors

>

> it sounds like you're not putting much thought into the oil you are

> going to use and whether or not you're going to use a funnel to get it

> into the reservior, you might have to upgrade your oil injector hoses to

> handle higher volume.

Hm I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Synthetic is far more often recommended in most injected systems. If Brent wants the best performance he's going to have to go para-synthetic. It's a mix between conventional and synthetic and is really the best option. Here is a short article with the information he might need to know what's best.

1. Preliminary Considerations

The oil in a 2-stroke engine performs two distinctly different functions. First and foremost, it lubricates the moving parts of the engine while it is running. Without a thin film of oil for lubrication between the pistons and the cylinder walls, the engine would self destruct in short order. Equally important to the life of the engine is the lubrication of rod bearings, crankshaft bearings, and piston pins.

The other function is that of protecting the internal parts of the engine as it sits quietly between flights, sometimes for weeks or even months at a time. The oil should cling to the internal parts, forming a thin film that protects against moisture and prevents rust.

Unfortunately, an oil that has excellent lubricating properties may not exhibit the best ability to form the protective film. Or, an oil that has good film characteristics may not provide the best lubrication. It's a tradeoff.

For 2-stroke engines, there is the practical matter of getting the oil into the engine. The oil is mixed with the fuel in a definite proportion and is then carried to the inside of the engine by the fuel as it passes through the crankcase on the way to the cylinders. The oil may be mixed with the fuel prior to putting the fuel into the tank (premix), or a special injector pump mounted on the engine may inject the oil into the fuel-air stream after it passes through the carburetor. When an injector is used, the oil is stored in a small tank or bottle mounted on or near the engine.

Injector pumps are favored by those who dislike the task of mixing the oil and the fuel, but others are skeptical of them because of their complexity and the nagging uncertainty as to whether the pump is really doing its job. At any rate, there are two methods (premix and injector) used to introduce the oil, and the method of introduction may impact the decision about which oil is preferred.

Yet another consideration arises because almost all the oil introduced into a 2-stroke engine is burned in the cylinders, quite unlike a 4-stroke engine. Therefore, a suitable oil for 2-strokes must burn clean without producing excessive deposits of carbon on the pistons and especially on the piston rings. A secondary consideration is the amount of oil residue that blows out the exhaust to be deposited on the tail feathers, the prop, and the rearward surfaces of the plane.

So, "Which oil should I use?" is not such a simple question after all! There are many things to consider, many competing factors, and in the end, a compromise must be made.

2. Three Different "Types" of Oil

There are basically three different types of oil available. We have straight mineral based oils, straight synthetic oils, and then we have something called a para-synthetic. The para-synthetic oil is a blend of both mineral and synthetic oils.

Mineral based oils are generally known for good lubrication properties while the engine is running and then, while the engine is sitting between flights, the mineral oils do a great job of keeping the internal parts of the engine coated with a fine film that keeps rust from forming. However, there have been complaints about excessive carbon deposits and stuck rings in some cases when straight mineral-based oils are used.

Synthetic oils are generally known for having excellent lubrication properties with low deposits while the engine is running. But, the super slick nature of straight synthetics has been accused of not being very good at leaving the fine film on the internal parts while the engine is inactive. The para-synthetics are touted as being the best of both worlds by providing the pro's and limiting the con's of both the mineral and synthetic oils.

3. The Most Popular Oils used in Ultralight Engines

There seem to be two main oils that ultralighters use. They are Pennzoil for Air Cooled Engines and Amsoil synthetic oil for 2-stroke engines. The Pennzoil is mixed at 50:1 while the Amsoil is mixed at 100:1.

Some reports state that Pennzoil gives the best lubrication while Amsoil or synthetics give the least carbon buildup and tail feather deposits. Mechanics have stated opinions from "no problems at all with Amsoil" to "Pennzoil gives better wear protection than Amsoil".

One contributor to this article writes, "I am inclined to listen to Tom Olenik when he says that he sees a little more engine wear with Amsoil at 100:1. I also note that Amsoil does recommend increasing the mix ratio to 80:1 for severe service conditions, which may include improper warm-ups or perhaps running at full throttle most of the time."

There have even been a few bad reports on Pennzoil and Amsoil but most, by far, are very positive. Early synthetics were reported to have an affinity for moisture. This problem is supposed to have been overcome many years ago. An obvious advantage to using synthetic is less carbon buildup and much less residue on the tail feathers, due to the simple fact that, at 100 : 1, there is less oil in the fuel to burn.

Some folks swear by Pennzoil, and other swear by Amsoil. Some swear at both so "your mileage may vary".

4. The Tried and True: A Recommendation

Now, for the person who just wants to know what oil to use in his engine without getting into all the esoteric details, here it is:

Pennzoil for Aircooled Engines mixed 50 : 1

Please understand, this is not saying that Amsoil, or any other oil is bad, and we're not saying that Pennzoil is the best, we're just saying that, overall, you will be "safe" with Pennzoil.

This recommendation is based upon years of experience with Pennzoil and the favorable reports of its use in hundreds or even thousands of engines.

To give you an idea of the strength of the convictions represented here, one contributor to this article does not use Pennzoil in his plane. He prefers a synthetic. However, all agree that, indeed, you will be "safe" with Pennzoil because of its track record, and also because the 50:1 mix ratio is a little less critical than 100:1 for the synthetic Amsoil.

5. Other Available Oils

There are Pennzoil 2-stroke oils formulated for marine or outboard use. While they may work, they are not recommended as the formulation is not set up for the air cooled engines. Some folks have used regular 2-stroke engine oils such as those from Walmart and other stores. Good results have been reported by some as well as bad results by others.

Other oils in popular use are Yamalube, AV2, Valvoline, Quaker State, Shell, Advance, and Golden Spectro, which is a blend of organic and synthetic oil.

One person writes, "I have been using the Golden Spectro for close to 20 years myself. My satisfaction is based on the performance and condition of the engines upon routine breakdown inspections."

6. Other Variables

There are lots of brands and lots of claims. However, keep in mind that there are many other variables that come into play that can allow someone to have success or failure with any of the oils. Here's some food for thought.

Say we have a guy in the North-Eastern, colder, wetter climates that uses a straight synthetic oil. He discovers rust on the inside of his engine upon tearing it down. A guy in the dry South-West, using the very same oil, might report that his engine is clean as a whistle and rust free. We might prematurely conclude that the straight synthetic might not be the way to go in the wetter climates.

What might the guy in the North-East do to change the outcome of his tear-down inspections? For one, he might follow the most recent guidelines from Rotax for storing the engine when not in use. Some of the recommended items include carb covers and plugs for the muffler to keep moisture from entering the engine when not in use. Long term storage should include draining the fuel system, fogging the engine with oil, and so forth.

Several years back, Ultralight Flying magazine did a survey on engine oils. This was an attempt to determine what oils were being used and what complaints the users had that might be associated with various oils.

Surprisingly, three oils were touted as having the least number of complaints that could be attributed to oils. Belray had two products included in the three, and the third oil was Golden Spectro's para-synthetic.

It should be pointed out that the results of this survey probably fall far short of being scientific. It would be interesting to see truly unbiased results of a survey of all the oils that are in use in various scenarios and climates.

Perhaps it's a bit too easy for manufacturers to construct tests to make their own oils outshine those of the competition under specific circumstances. In turn, this makes it nearly impossible for a consumer to do a meaningful evaluation of one oil relative to another.

More important than the oil issue is the carb tuning and proper fuel mixture. Most of the oils available today can do a fine job of lubricating the internal parts of the engine. If a guy were to select a premium low ash oil known for having a cleaner burn, he can negate the benefits of the oil by running the engine too rich which can cause more deposits than normal.

By the same token, someone could have better than average results with a low end oil if his carburetor was carefully and expertly tuned. Two many variables come into play for it to be possible to guarantee certain results with Brand "X." Jetting, fuel octane, temperature, altitude, and many other factors can enhance or negate the success achieved with a particular oil.

7. Conclusion

Hopefully, this article has added to your understanding of the complexities associated with the apparently simple matter of choosing an oil for your engine. Admittedly, we have not provided a lot of firm answers. But, we did make a recommendation to get you started.

As you gain experience with your engine and acquire knowledge of its peculiar traits and mannerisms, all the while talking to the local experts, you may come to prefer one oil over another. That is just fine. After all, the variables to which your engine is subjected may be quite different from a similar one not all that far away.

Contributors to this Article: Bud Connolly,

Mike Harrison,

Jim Hayward,

and Ralph Shultz.

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Thats a good point tyler but at 9000 rpm his max piston velocity is still only 3700 feet per minute (approx, using 90 mm rod length because i don't know rod lenth for FA50 or Fz 50) so its still well within the realm of a conventional oil which is more likely to work properly metering with the injector.

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Sure graham, but you forget he isnt running the injector but tunning the oil reservoir into a y-split with the gas. Everybody knows synthetics are better and a gravity fed system.

#nobadadvice

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

i thought he was just tee'ing the bearings so it would get oil directly to the bearings and in the intake. i assumed he was still using the injector.

this is all getting very confusing, i'm starting to seriously question the feasibility of this venture based solely on the lack of specificity surrounding this oiling scheme.

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

I actually fill my gas tank with Pennzoil then fill my oil reservoir with gas so i can tune my oil input through the carb. I can really nail down how much oil i'm getting that way. Added at least 3.67 times the amount of torques. Now when Im in 7th gear on my Mb5 I can hit 83 mph easy. I jetted to a 6 and use the w-15 needle in case anyone was wondering and wanted to copy.

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Mikey Antonakakis /

Peppermint oil will keep the bugs away

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

> Mikey Antonakakis Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Peppermint oil will keep the bugs away

Mice , too ... from what I hear , anyway . ;)

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Mikey Antonakakis /

Hm maybe I need to rethink this, adding extra micepower can help with that 70mph goal

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

You guys are really overthinking the oil in my opinion.

I'll be running the SuperTech TCW-3 oil from Wal-Mart

SuperTech.jpeg

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

thats a good choice as long as your piston speeds don't exceed 4000 feet/minute, i'd say if you go much over 70 you should back off.

are you going to ringland port so you get better oil permeation between the ring lands.

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

That's how they stick you with expensive repairs right AFTER the warranty is up. They tune your injector for destruction.

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Good thing this isn’t a scoot forum too, right Frank?

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

I don't get the part of the article about 2T oil acting as a rust inhibitor inside the motor. Um, moped cases are made of aluminum. Maybe it will oxidize, but not "rust."

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

> DAS Riot Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I don't get the part of the article about 2T oil acting as a rust

> inhibitor inside the motor. Um, moped cases are made of aluminum.

> Maybe it will oxidize, but not "rust."

Many times , the cylinder sleeve is iron . There are many other steel parts inside those aluminum cases .

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Probably Fred /

> P D Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > DAS Riot Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > I don't get the part of the article about 2T oil acting as a rust

>

> > inhibitor inside the motor. Um, moped cases are made of aluminum.

>

> > Maybe it will oxidize, but not "rust."

>

> Many times , the cylinder sleeve is iron . There are many other steel

> parts inside those aluminum cases Like the crank and crank bearings

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

michael riggs /

I like my rod and piston from a nice rare almost endangered wood. From the deep jungle of Borneo

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

> michael riggs Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I like my rod and piston from a nice rare almost endangered wood. From

> the deep jungle of Borneo

Ha . Some of that hardwood is dense enough it might just hold up as a rod in a low RPM motor . LOL

I had some from the Amazon jungle that would dull a new saw blade .

Amazing stuff . It did make for a very fine turkey box call . ;)

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

> frank v Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Ben Whittle Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > Good thing this isn’t a scoot forum too, right Frank?

>

> :) its all the same parts bro just ones got pedals. with that said

> stick to the 2 speed mopeds. the scoots are much harder to work on and

> you have not mastered the sport class yet let alone midrace and full

> race. how do i know? because i have been schooling every sweaty dude

> from alaska to netherlands for four years on every subject. if i saw

> any one with any talent i would have nothing but glowing reviews and

> joyfull critisism / speaking of that where is crazey wayne? what

> happened? that guy was a volcano of reality.

It was sarcasm. I know. I’m not new.

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

> frank v Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> speaking of that where is crazey wayne? what

> happened? that guy was a volcano of reality.

Don't blow your cover, wayne. Do not compromise the mission.

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Frank isn’t Wayne. Nice try though

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

frank schools sweaty dudes! holy shit you can't make this stuff up.

you got any pictures of you schooling these sweaty dudes, locked in deep passionate tutelage? your minds and bodies growing as one as you share the sensual teacher-student relationship?

you guys recommend synthetic or conventional oil for these "sweaty dude schooling sessions?" what have you been doing for four years? is this your label reading and cylinder shimming doctorate work?

please shower your pearls of wisdom on us poor unwashed heathens.

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

this is next level

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

> Graham Motzing Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> frank schools sweaty dudes! holy shit you can't make this stuff up.

>

> you got any pictures of you schooling these sweaty dudes, locked in deep

> passionate tutelage? your minds and bodies growing as one as you share

> the sensual teacher-student relationship?

>

> you guys recommend synthetic or conventional oil for these "sweaty dude

> schooling sessions?" what have you been doing for four years? is this

> your label reading and cylinder shimming doctorate work?

>

> please shower your pearls of wisdom on us poor unwashed heathens.

hahahahahahahahaha

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

Mikey Antonakakis /

Dinosaurs are the coolest, that's all there is to it.

Frankly, if you think it is as simple as "conventional vs. synthetic," you have a lot of learning to do. Some synthetics are better at some things than some conventional oils, and vice versa.

Should I also post the exact same thing three times in a row?

Re: Fastest Suzuki FA50? Hoping to hit 70mph

who to believe, mechanical engineer for a motorcycle manufacturer or some dip shit who can't spell on a moped forum?

Sorry, you can't reply to this topic. It has been closed by simon.