E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

Had a thought that lighting your clutch bell will effect clutch engagement and slippage? When you lighten the bell it makes it easier for the clutch to engage and less slippage overall (with the same springs,fluids, etc...)?

Weight to friction thought

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

Lightening the rotating mass of the crankshaft will increase torque output, which will make the clutch engage sooner/faster.

Hence why peds with all the lighter parts and bigger topends need far stiffer springs on the clutches.

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

#CrazyWane rocks # Crazy Wayne /

Then you can lighten the gears chain rear wheel and moped

If you're really clever you can do reduce the weight and mass of the Earth and actually make it rotate beneath your moped as you accelerate.

Giving you the illusion of acceleration.

I think dieting would probably work best though you should try that, it's easier.

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

lightening the bell with large holes will allow fluid to freely enter, giving a more consistent slip

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

> Full Tuck Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Lightening the rotating mass of the crankshaft will increase torque

> output, which will make the clutch engage sooner/faster.

I don't believe this is entirely correct. If I'm not mistaken the greater the mass of the flywheel the greater the torque, but at a loss of hp and rpm. When you lighten the flywheel you shift the torque curve down and hp curve up. Plus you're not lightening the clutch, that spinning mass stays the same so the force required to engage the clutch doesn't change. At the point the clutch engages, say 1000 rpm, you have less rotational mass or momentum transferred from the crank to the clutch. You have to make up that small loss with power, which should mean higher rpm. So if the clutch was grabbing at 1100 rpm before you lightened the mass it should probably take more after. Once the clutch engages however, the drive train is lighter and the motor has less mass to push to speed. That should translate into more hp and more rpm.

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

He asked about when the clutch engages, so thats all my response applies to. I didn't say anything about after or before the clutch is engaging. however, my response is still correct because when the clutch is engaging,the clutch bell and starter plate are accelerating.

I left horse power out of the response because it doesn't matter.

The clutch is engaged via angular acceleration, a.k.a. torque. Less weight on the crankshaft will increase torque at a given RPM, thus causing the clutch, with lightened starter plate/bell, to engage faster and sooner. However, because the clutch is on the crank, as opposed to the bell/starter plate, it will begin to engage at the same RPM

edit: clairity + accuracy. (edited)

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

Dirty30 Dillon /

Lightening the clutch bell does not physically affect the engagement of the clutch. The mechanism and properties of the clutch are the same, so they won't change.

It can change the feel of the clutch, because a reduction in mass will allow drive after the clutch to come to rotational harmony with the clutch faster due to let resistance, and the increased lubrication will change slip characteristics.

But no, the act of lightening your clutch doesn't effect clutch engagement directly.

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

> Full Tuck Wrote:

> The clutch is engaged via angular acceleration, a.k.a. torque. Less

> s weight on the crankshaft will increase torque at a given RPM,

No. A bowling ball spinning at 1000 rpm has more torque than a balloon spinning at 1000 rpm. At 1000 rpm a heavy flywheel has more torque than a lighter flywheel at 1000 rpm. Basic physics.

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

#CrazyWane rocks # Crazy Wayne /

Reducing the mass of the Bell will increase how fast it gets hot.

This will cause the clutch to fade faster due to overheating.

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

> Dirty30 Dillon Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Lightening the clutch bell does not physically affect the engagement of

> the clutch. The mechanism and properties of the clutch are the same, so

> they won't change.

>

> It can change the feel of the clutch, because a reduction in mass will

> allow drive after the clutch to come to rotational harmony with the

> clutch faster due to let resistance, and the increased lubrication will

> change slip characteristics.

>

>

> But no, the act of lightening your clutch doesn't effect clutch

> engagement directly.

I believe reducing the mass of the clutch bell might have a small effect on slip but as you pointed out there's a fluid to consider. Taking mass from the outside of the bell like they do on a Tomos shouldn't change much because it doesn't affect the contact surfaces. If you were to drill holes in it that changes things considerably. Then you would change flow paths, create agitation and possibly foaming. Lot of new variables to consider if you went that route.

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

> Frodo's Precious Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Reducing the mass of the Bell will increase how fast it gets hot.

> This will cause the clutch to fade faster due to overheating.

Or the smaller mass cools faster.

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

#CrazyWane rocks # Crazy Wayne /

> frank dadog Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Frodo's Precious Wrote:

> > -------------------------------------------------------

> > Reducing the mass of the Bell will increase how fast it gets hot.

> > This will cause the clutch to fade faster due to overheating.

>

> Or the smaller mass cools faster.

They usually do cool faster after the Bell explodes cracks or shatters and takes out the gears

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

Great thread. Subscribed.

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

> Full Tuck Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> He asked about when the clutch engages, so thats all my response applies

> to. I didn't say anything about after or before the clutch is engaging.

> however, my response is still correct because when the clutch is

> engaging,the clutch bell and starter plate are accelerating.

>

> I left horse power out of the response because it doesn't matter.

>

> The clutch is engaged via angular acceleration. Less

> s weight on the crankshaft will increase angular acceleration at a given RPM, thus

> causing the clutch, with lightened starter plate/bell, to engage faster

> and sooner. However, because the clutch is on the crank, as opposed to

> the bell/starter plate, it will begin to engage at the same RPM

>

> edit: clairity + accuracy.

Terminology FIXED. Oops. Torque is a dumb term for angular force. Though my argument is correct, its probably not statistically significant, as previously mentioned (I intentionally didn't mention that). it could be the increased tranny fluid dispersal because holes making the clutch more slippy...maybe... I don't know enough about fluid dynamics.

"Slippy" is intentionally vague.

Don't most tranny fluids have anti foaming compounds in them now? I don't wanna research it on my phone.

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

I think maybe you're trying to say the lighter crank will accelerate faster and throw the plates out sooner.

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

> frank dadog Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I think maybe you're trying to say the lighter crank will accelerate

> faster and throw the plates out sooner

No, does lighten the clutch bell effect clutch slippage. Would is be easier to turn a 100lb clutch bell over a 200lb clutch bell? Would this effect slippage and full engagement using the same clutch and fluid,weight,etc....

I think the same clutch will slipp more with the heavier bell?

Re: E50 Lighting your clutch bell has no effect clutch engagement.

#CrazyWane rocks # Crazy Wayne /

Just do what you're going to do man that's what you always do anyway.

Then report back to us your findings and let us know.

And please post pictures of the Carnage thank you.

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

Dirty30 Dillon /

> Rocco Taco Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > frank dadog Wrote:

> > -------------------------------------------------------

> > I think maybe you're trying to say the lighter crank will accelerate

> > faster and throw the plates out sooner

>

> No, does lighten the clutch bell effect clutch slippage. Would is be

> easier to turn a 100lb clutch bell over a 200lb clutch bell? Would this

> effect slippage and full engagement using the same clutch and

> fluid,weight,etc....

>

> I think the same clutch will slipp more with the heavier bell?

This conversation is like asking "will running a wider tire increase clutch slip."

Obviously it will increase/decrease resistance, but doesn't make it slip more/less.

Re: E50 Lighting your clutch bell has no effect clutch engagement.

> Frodo's Precious Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Just do what you're going to do man that's what you always do anyway.

> Then report back to us your findings and let us know.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> And please post pictures of the Carnage thank you.

I already did, I went to machine shop we cut off all the weight we could just like cornped & I notice now the clutch full engagement is much more smooth and sooner and that hurt me not getting up into powerband quicker but I think I can pull that tune back by removing the same amount of weight % from the clutch as I did to the bell.

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

#CrazyWane rocks # Crazy Wayne /

Right............ (edited)

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

Matt Mahloch -- MBM Customs /

Having read part of this I’m now dumber.

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

#CrazyWane rocks # Crazy Wayne /

> Matt Mahloch -- MBM Customs Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Having read part of this I’m now dumber.

Yep you can't argue with stupidity.

It will beat you with experience every time.

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

> Matt Mahloch -- MBM Customs Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Having read part of this I’m now dumber.

I think you mean "dumb". If you write "Having read part of this I'm now dumb" the reader presumes you weren't dumb to begin with. The way you've written you were dumb to begin with and are now "dumber". Unless that's what you meant.

Re: E50 Lighting your clutch bell has no effect clutch engagement.

> Rocco Taco Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Frodo's Precious Wrote:

> > -------------------------------------------------------

> > Just do what you're going to do man that's what you always do anyway.

> > Then report back to us your findings and let us know.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > And please post pictures of the Carnage thank you.

>

> I already did, I went to machine shop we cut off all the weight we could

> just like cornped & I notice now the clutch full engagement is much more

> smooth and sooner and that hurt me not getting up into powerband quicker

> but I think I can pull that tune back by removing the same amount of

> weight % from the clutch as I did to the bell.

Oh no. He copied cornped. Shits ruined.

Re: E50 Lighting your clutch bell has no effect clutch engagement.

#CrazyWane rocks # Crazy Wayne /

> ♫ Maize BLK ♫ Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Rocco Taco Wrote:

> > -------------------------------------------------------

> > > Frodo's Precious Wrote:

> > > -------------------------------------------------------

> > > Just do what you're going to do man that's what you always do

> anyway.

> > > Then report back to us your findings and let us know.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > And please post pictures of the Carnage thank you.

> >

> > I already did, I went to machine shop we cut off all the weight we

> could

> > just like cornped & I notice now the clutch full engagement is much

> more

> > smooth and sooner and that hurt me not getting up into powerband

> quicker

> > but I think I can pull that tune back by removing the same amount of

> > weight % from the clutch as I did to the bell.

>

> Oh no. He copied cornped. Shits ruined.

Yeah I never listen to that damn Cornped.

He just puts holes in everything and shoves corn in them.

He claims it has something to do with all the little bumps on the corn

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

> frank dadog Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Matt Mahloch -- MBM Customs Wrote:

> > -------------------------------------------------------

> > Having read part of this I’m now dumber.

>

> I think you mean "dumb". If you write "Having read part of this I'm now

> dumb" the reader presumes you weren't dumb to begin with. The way you've

> written you were dumb to begin with and are now "dumber". Unless that's

> what you meant.

We know what he meant lets not act stupid

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

Dirty30 Dillon /

Who's on first?

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

#CrazyWane rocks # Crazy Wayne /

What's on first who's on second.

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

> #CrazyWane rocks # Crazy Wayne Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> What's on first who's on second.

Hi crazy Wayne! Treats rocks, 1977scooters blows chuckys

Re: E5@ Does Lighting your clutch bell effect clutch engagement?

Abbott: Strange as it may seem, they give ball players nowadays very peculiar names.

Costello: Funny names?

Abbott: Nicknames, nicknames. Now, on the St. Louis team we have Who's on first, What's on second, I Don't Know is on third--

Costello: That's what I want to find out. I want you to tell me the names of the fellows on the St. Louis team.

Abbott: I'm telling you. Who's on first, What's on second, I Don't Know is on third--

Costello: You know the fellows' names?

Abbott: Yes.

Costello: Well, then who's playing first?

Abbott: Yes.

Costello: I mean the fellow's name on first base.

Abbott: Who.

Costello: The fellow playin' first base.

Abbott: Who.

Costello: The guy on first base.

Abbott: Who is on first.

Costello: Well, what are you askin' me for?

Abbott: I'm not asking you--I'm telling you. Who is on first.

Costello: I'm asking you--who's on first?

Abbott: That's the man's name.

Costello: That's who's name?

Abbott: Yes.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Costello: When you pay off the first baseman every month, who gets the money?

Abbott: Every dollar of it. And why not, the man's entitled to it.

Costello: Who is?

Abbott: Yes.

Costello: So who gets it?

Abbott: Why shouldn't he? Sometimes his wife comes down and collects it.

Costello: Who's wife?

Abbott: Yes. After all, the man earns it.

Costello: Who does?

Abbott: Absolutely.

Costello: Well, all I'm trying to find out is what's the guy's name on first base?

Abbott: Oh, no, no. What is on second base.

Costello: I'm not asking you who's on second.

Abbott: Who's on first!

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Costello: St. Louis has a good outfield?

Abbott: Oh, absolutely.

Costello: The left fielder's name?

Abbott: Why.

Costello: I don't know, I just thought I'd ask.

Abbott: Well, I just thought I'd tell you.

Costello: Then tell me who's playing left field?

Abbott: Who's playing first.

Costello: Stay out of the infield! The left fielder's name?

Abbott: Why.

Costello: Because.

Abbott: Oh, he's center field.

Costello: Wait a minute. You got a pitcher on this team?

Abbott: Wouldn't this be a fine team w i t h o u t a pitcher?

Costello: Tell me the pitcher's name.

Abbott: Tomorrow.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Costello: Now, when the guy at bat bunts the ball--me being a good catcher--I want to throw the guy out at first base, so I pick up the ball and throw it to who?

Abbott: Now, that's he first thing you've said right.

Costello: I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!

Abbott: Don't get excited. Take it easy.

Costello: I throw the ball to first base, whoever it is grabs the ball, so the guy runs to second. Who picks up the ball and throws it to what. What throws it to I don't know. I don't know throws it back to tomorrow--a triple play.

Abbott: Yeah, it could be.

Costello: Another guy gets up and it's a long ball to center.

Abbott: Because.

Costello: Why? I don't know. And I don't care.

Abbott: What was that?

Costello: I said, I DON'T CARE!

Abbott: Oh, that's our shortstop!

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