Sha vs bing

Been reading alot of hate about shas and im curious what's up?

Ive used plenty of them and they seem ok

Better on more mild stuff than anything

Anyway are bings that much better in terms of flow,performance and tuning?

I always thought bings were kinda turdy but hell i dunno

Re: Sha vs bing

By the looks of the overall carbs the bing seems more to have more tune ability you can adjust the slide needle and change the atomizer....where in the sha you can twist the idle screw and thats about it.....i've had shit luck with bings tho mine leak no matter how many rebuild kits i toss at em....

Re: Sha vs bing

PHBG Errry day

Re: Sha vs bing

Probably Fred /

Carbs with a needle are always better but as far as stock bikes goes Puchs like bings

Italian and tomos a35 like sha.

I have gotten a puch to go 62 mph with a 15 mm bing (polini kit, rev run pipe) I never would get it to go that fast with a 15 mm sha.

I got 2 55+mph polini 15mm bing set ups I run now and have been for 9-10 years

Getting a bing carb to stop leaking is not a problem if you know how to clean and maintain the float needle, float seat and set the float height also the float could become gaslogged/waterlogged needing replacement.

Of course for true performance with a kit not only do you need a carb with a needle you need to carb with a idle circuit/idle jet with neither a bing or sha has though with modifying the slide with buddy hole on a Bing you could make the idle circuit kinda.

As far as a stock carb that comes with stock bike I think the tomos a55 PHVA carb is one of the best stock carburetors of any moped.

Totally tunable with idle circuit, starter circuit, air screw, many needle settings it's (14-17.5 sizes) my favorite small kit carb (after 14mm bing of course)

Re: Sha vs bing

Bing is easier to tune via atomizer, needle clip, and main jet. If the float bowl gasket leaks you need a new one. I usually buy several at a time.

SHA is super simple. Theres a main jet. Thats it. Most people don't know how to tune the idle by slotting the slide. Just buy several slides and notch them differently.

I like Bing and PHVA because they can tune for the whole range, aren't too complicated, are you can get them large enough for stock and mild kitted setups.

My magnum has a 15mm Bing and my Sachs has a 17.5mm PHVA (edited)

Re: Sha vs bing

They both save gas and that's the most important thing people over look defiantly now since gas prices are going up

Re: Sha vs bing

Some puch e50 came with an SHA stock

Re: Sha vs bing

Charles Cole (OFMC) /

I don't think so!

Re: Sha vs bing

carbs are designed to mix fuel and air, and throttle air, over the full range of operating conditions. Those conditions can vary a lot from bike to bike. When you tune by porting or adding a pipe, you need more fuel in the powerband, but you don't want to run too rich outside the powerband or you are all rich and blubbery (loading up) at small throttle.

Bings tend to work better on setups that need a progressive fuel delivery curve, you can tune the needle to run lean at low rpm/high vacuum/closed throttle, and still leave a large main jet to run nice and fat when you're ripping.

SHA's don't have the ability to control that as well, but they also tend to be more forgiving for bikes that have a fairly 'flat' fuel delivery curve.

I've ported stock cylinders that run really well on an SHA, they are also good on stuff like Peugeot and Tomos with the reed valve. For piston port, i almost always have better luck with a bing.

the worst part about the bing is the literally thousands of combinations possible of slides, needles, atomizers, jets, etc. Even some of the bodies have differences. If you're starting with a used pile of parts that may not have come out of the factory all together, you can really drive yourself bonkers tuning it. If you buy an off-the-shelf 15 for 100 bucks you might as well just get a VM18 which is better for everything ever period.

Re: Sha vs bing

Also: recently the 'Dakar' clone SHA came on the market with a tuning screw. They combine the part throttle adjustability with the ease of tuning. I've only run them on pretty basic peugeot, moby and once on a minarelli, but they were very easy to use, cheap and tuned in well. Definitely a nice option.

Re: Sha vs bing

> niklaus g Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Some puch e50 came with an SHA stock

What?

Re: Sha vs bing

> Graham Motzing Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Also: recently the 'Dakar' clone SHA came on the market with a tuning

> screw. They combine the part throttle adjustability with the ease of

> tuning. I've only run them on pretty basic peugeot, moby and once on a

> minarelli, but they were very easy to use, cheap and tuned in well.

> Definitely a nice option.

But they are made out of pot metal and I always wind up snapping the boddies

anyhow lots of good info here, Im with Ken, I love the PHVA's that come on a55's, great little carb

I always try and run 14 bings on my smaller bikes, but like Graham said, to many variations, I wind up getting annoyed and tossing a sha on them, I just did that this past Sunday on a 55cc V1 I was playing with, I could not cure the leaks where it clamped onto the intake, so it idled for shit, gave up and tossed a 15 sha on a 14mm Bella intake, problem solved, slightly worse low end, but problem solved none the less

Re: Sha vs bing

> Charles Cole (OFMC) Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I don't think so!

2ce2nmb.jpg

Re: Sha vs bing

Probably Fred /

Yeah I think they did put Shas on 1HP restricted sears/USA made or Canada Bombardier bikes

Re: Sha vs bing

The best thing to happen to bings recently is the new plastic-shimmed MLM intakes. The intake air leak was such a pain in the ass, especially while tuning, but now I run these on the few bing bikes I have and they make a huge difference.

Re: Sha vs bing

> Mike Boyd Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> The best thing to happen to bings recently is the new plastic-shimmed

> MLM intakes. The intake air leak was such a pain in the ass, especially

> while tuning, but now I run these on the few bing bikes I have and they

> make a huge difference.

Is there anyother way to fix the intake air leak without buying a different intake? Tried adding an O ring sandwiched between carb and intake but it didn't help.

Re: Sha vs bing

> Toledo Riot Wrote:

> But they are made out of pot metal and I always wind up snapping the

> boddies

>

Regular SHA's are made out of pot metal too, but you're right the casting quality isn't as good on some of them. Either Dakar or Arbeo-whichever the one is thats made in italy- actually have the clamp area beefed up a good bit.

I also have gotten them before where the clamp area is a mm bigger than standard SHA, so if you crank them down onto a regular SHA shim they will crack. I cant remember what or where that carb came from but i do remember having to make a custom shim for it since it wasn't the standard sized one.

I also have an SHA with an extra small clamp... go figure... i think its a 'P' off a early 90's golden bullet A3?

The o-ring between the manifold and carb always works for me but you gotta put a little pressure on it when you install it. If you can find the cup seal looking o-ring jammer that some bikes came with stock, that shit is money.

Re: Sha vs bing

***Kim Jong illest*** /

i like to read the sha vs bing threads. especially when ken chimes in. my favorite part is when it is scientifically explained that some brands "like" sha's and some dont, even though they are all piston port and extremely similar.

theres something like 2 dozen sha slides. learning how an sha works and getting familiar with the slides and why they are different is the key to tuning an sha to be every bit as good as a bing, but it does take time, research, and experimentation to get to know them well enough to tune them correctly.

most people dont bother, so they take a big dump on sha's instead of learning anything about them. it doesnt help that 90% of sha's come with a slide thats not correct for their set up.

take some time to read up on sha's. get to know and understand them well and you'll end up putting them on everything.

Re: Sha vs bing

> A2 Andrew Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Mike Boyd Wrote:

> > -------------------------------------------------------

> > The best thing to happen to bings recently is the new plastic-shimmed

> > MLM intakes. The intake air leak was such a pain in the ass,

> especially

> > while tuning, but now I run these on the few bing bikes I have and

> they

> > make a huge difference.

>

> Is there anyother way to fix the intake air leak without buying a

> different intake? Tried adding an O ring sandwiched between carb and

> intake but it didn't help.

Here's a post I made awhile back, may help with your bing air intake leak.

https://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/read.php?1,4047853,4048284#msg-4048284

Re: Sha vs bing

> ***Vanilla Thunder*** Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> i like to read the sha vs bing threads. especially when ken chimes in.

> my favorite part is when it is scientifically explained that some brands

> "like" sha's and some dont, even though they are all piston port and

> extremely similar.

>

> theres something like 2 dozen sha slides. learning how an sha works and

> getting familiar with the slides and why they are different is the key

> to tuning an sha to be every bit as good as a bing, but it does take

> time, research, and experimentation to get to know them well enough to

> tune them correctly.

>

> most people dont bother, so they take a big dump on sha's instead of

> learning anything about them. it doesnt help that 90% of sha's come with

> a slide thats not correct for their set up.

>

> take some time to read up on sha's. get to know and understand them well

> and you'll end up putting them on everything.

Got a good source for SHA slides? I know of the 8 different sizes available on treats, but had no idea there were ~2 dozen

Re: Sha vs bing

You have to add the Polini filter adaptor to get the most out of the SHA. The built in Venturi stack really wakes the fuel signal up.

http://www.midsouthminimoto.com/ProductImages/PL-143-465-005.jpg

http://www.ciaocrossclub.it/root/elaborazioni/dan67/3.jpg

http://www.minimotopoint.com/popup_extra_images.php?peiID=334

http://www.easymotors.org/media/catalog/product/cache/5/image/600x600/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/p/o/polini.143.465.005_1.jpg

http://www.minimotopoint.com/images/143.465.005.jpg

Also the clear Malossi float bowl comes in handy for tuning but don't run it all the time or it will haze over and get brittle. (edited)

Re: Sha vs bing

Probably Fred /

> Barn Fresh Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> You have to add the Polini filter adaptor to get the most out of the

> SHA. The built in Venturi stack really wakes the fuel signal up.

>

> http://www.midsouthminimoto.com/ProductImages/PL-143-465-005.jpg

>

> http://www.ciaocrossclub.it/root/elaborazioni/dan67/3.jpg

>

> http://www.minimotopoint.com/popup_extra_images.php?peiID=334

>

> http://www.easymotors.org/media/catalog/product/cache/5/image/600x600/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/p/o/polini.143.465.005_1.jpg

>

> http://www.minimotopoint.com/images/143.465.005.jpg

>

> Also the clear Malossi float bowl comes in handy for tuning but don't

> run it all the time or it will haze over and get brittle.

This stock sha black cap with filter works great, it seems like it lets the right amount of air in for more power and great throttle response, way better than no filter,

Re: Sha vs bing

The Polini adaptor uses any 32-34mm filter, just clamps on to the air horn. Flows much better than the stock filter.

Re: Sha vs bing

thats cool you got a link to where they are selling that?

I've thought about making something like that of my own at times but never got around to it.

Re: Sha vs bing

they're both cheap mild carbs. if you need a cheap carb, get one. I dunno, there's not that much nuance to it. graham had a nice explanation, don't know there's much else needs to be said.

a good ken roff vs josh h battle of who "knows" better.

A bing you can run backwards though, which makes hose mounting it possible...

Re: Sha vs bing

seriously though, when it comes down to bing vs SHA, I base my decision 100% entirely on which one I have more jets for in the likely range, and which one I've got an intake for/easiest to mount.

the performance differences are negligible and essentially erased with tuning. If I was worried about the extra 2-3mph I might be able to eke out of one vs the other, I'd probably just be trying to find a better carb than either and actually see some real improvement...

Re: Sha vs bing

> Graham Motzing Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> thats cool you got a link to where they are selling that?

>

> I've thought about making something like that of my own at times but

> never got around to it.

I've got them from Mid-South but they were out awhile back. I just picked one up off eBaY. 143.465.005 is the Polini part number for doing a search. I swear these are the best kept secret in SHA tuning. Not only does it show on the dyno but the proof in the pudding is in lap times! http://www.midsouthminimoto.com/143465005.aspx

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