Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

https://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/read.php?7,3867979,3997881#msg-3997881

check this out its a good write up with measurments on 7 piece clutch kit

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

skinee puppy Wrote:

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> https://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/read.php?7,3867979

> ,3997881#msg-3997881

> check this out its a good write up with

> measurments on 7 piece clutch kit

This was an auto transmission right? The manual is a bit different It's still relatively applicable information though. So the pads in the 7 piece are just about the same thickness as the uber clutch pads. .10mm thicker or so.

I have 6 1.7mm plates to mess with and a handful of old pads to try and thin out a bit. I'm not sure why I keep putting this off but I still haven't gotten to it. Been working on my hobbit that I've been dailying I guess.

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

yeah auto trans, i mean in reality if the end gap of all the pads plates is what the pre load is set to you could run as many plate pad combo as possible.

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

holy TSM man. looks like the one that burnt down my shop.

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

I bought the tank from Lucky 2 Strokes. Did you sell it to them?

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

So I Finally got around to jamming more shit into the clutch.

Turns out I just spun the nut off this time instead of glazing everything over. No problem, I ordered 100 (lol McMaster) thin M10x1.00 nuts to jam and hopefully prevent that. They are ~5mm thick; Idk if i'll have to make them even thinner to fit two on the end of the crank proper or not, but i'll figure it out. Stock nut is 6mm but there's a little bit of crank sticking out.

I was able to make it a 7 piece fairly easily and may not even need that much clutch if I was just spinning the nut off with the two springs.

Anyways, I ended up having one 3.2mm pad and one that was 4.2mm in the clutch to begin with. I don't think it was swollen or anything, it was just bigger. Idk.

I Was able to fit 2 springs, 4 discs, and 3 pads in without much trouble. I removed the end spacer (#15) that sits on the splined piece (#19) from the stack. The whole stack came to about 17mm so the 18mm pins stick out about 3mm. Might be too much pin stickage; not sure yet.

So going in towards the crankcase, here's the plan:

-outer bell-lookin' nipple piece (11)

-Nut (2 jammed) (m10x1.00 Thin nuts)

-fat washer that could be round but is not for whatever reason (13)

-1.7mm disc (16)

-3.2mm pad (18)

-1.7mm disc (16)

-3.2mm pad (18)

-1.7mm disc (16)

-3.2mm pad (18)

-1.7mm disc (16)

-Fingerly Discy springy thingy (20)

-Fingerly Discy springy thingy (20)

-Fat bottom spacer (21)

-weird little washer shim with SPEED holes in it (22)

-Clutch bell (23)

I did run into some fitment issues getting the clutch actuator piece (#7) onto the stick (#5).

I think the longer pins pushed the nipple bell (11) out a bit so it was difficult to get onto the stick (#5) cause it rubbed a bit. I ground some of the actuator jobbie (#7) off and it fits. I have 2 of part #11 and plan to make one a little shorter to help with this and make sure the brass screwy bit (#9) hits the proper mark.

When pulling the clutch lever it doesn't really seem to spread the pads much, but it does open and let the wheel spin.

I have not put the cover back on and I might have clearance issues with that. More gaskets will fix.

I kinda want to get a handful of the spring washers from the auto clutches just to help space everything out when the clutch is opened to hopefully mitigate drag and such.

Also, holy shit my clutch hand is sore.(edited)

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

Cool glad to see some progress.

FYI springs from an auto clutch don't fit, they're too wide and would interfere with the pins.

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

A2 Andrew Wrote:

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> FYI springs from an auto clutch don't fit

oh, shit. Well I'm glad I didn't blow $20 on them already haha.

I guess I'll go with the finger springs that McMaster has. I measure what I need tonight and get a fat sack of them or whatever is close enough.

My hobbit got stolen over the weekend so now I have all kinds of time to finish this build.

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

Oh shit that sucks. Hope you recover it.

Found a bag of the ones I bought, package was marked 1.555 x .971 x 0.014. I did have to shave down the OD quite a bit and open up the ID too. Soo....yeah.

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

order some m10-1 nylon locking nuts it does the trick for the nut spinage

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

I'm gonna do thin jam nuts. That seems more solid to me.

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

double jam nuts would work well i bet

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

Yeah, I would think better than a nylon lock nut.

I got hit by a car again and broke my hand so my moped projects are on the back burner for now.

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

damn that sucks hope it heals soon dude

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

F Fluid

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

♣Slew Foot♣ /

get a counter set hex screw in the nut, be sure it doesn't back off.

the manual one doesn't use the doughnut it is just for the automatics i thinks...

although, i did find a Sachs clutch work around, i seen an old maccoulph chainsaw that had a tiny clutchbell and housing that was just right for a 505/504 type application.

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

So here is what actually fits and works quite well. didn't spin the nut off yet and holds the power really well so far.

-outer bell-lookin' nipple piece (11). I did turn this down maybe a mm. It's pretty hard and a pain to work with.

-Nut (2 jammed) (m10x1.00x5.00 Thin nuts)

-One of these. Had to grind the round part down a bit. was too big. I guess any thinner washer that covers the splined jobby would do.

-1.7mm disc (16)

-3.2mm pad (18)

-1.7mm disc (16)

-3.2mm pad (18)

-1.7mm disc (16)

-3.2mm pad (18)

-1.7mm disc (16)

-Fingerly Discy springy thingy (20)

-Fingerly Discy springy thingy (20)

-Fat bottom spacer (21)

-weird little washer shim with SPEED holes in it (22)

-Clutch bell (23)

I had a hard time getting everything together initially and ground a little bit of material off of the actuator(#7) so it fits together like a glove.

The trans cover would push on the actuator so I have a bout 2.5 mm of gasket and made a spacer out of some random tub lid until I can get a better spacer solution like aluminum or CPVC.

Works good. You can really goose it. Can't ride it too much cause my hand is still somewhat fucked and the clutch is super stiff. Gotta make sure all the bolts are still tight and finish up the wiring and seat and shit. Getting there.(edited)

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

No clutch springs?

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

...

edit: oh those springs. Nah not yet.(edited)

Nosprings.PNG

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

lol fuck this bike.

I'm not sure what happened this time. Probably spun the nut a hair until the lock nut caught it or the clutch actuator arm is pressing against the cover. I was able to limp it back to the garage, but I lost a ton of clutch grab and im sure my plates are glazed again. I'll open it up again in a few days. I'm going through so much transmission fluid lol

I think I'm going to take the spring off the gear selector arm so that it will just stay in the low gear without my foot being on it.

Like it's fun as hell for that 5 minutes that it works but I'm losing faith. fuckin' mopads.(edited)

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

I was right, i spun the lower lock nut a spell.

Took it all apart and deglazed, tightened the fuck out of it this time. Works great so far, not a lot of mileage though. I'll take it down to the track one of these days and see if i can top it out. It is fucking terrifying and vibrates a shit ton but it is promising as long as i don't throw the chain.

Need to confirm proper timing, work on the jetting, and finish up the lighting. maybe put a seat on it lol.

Also have a trapezoidal rear suspension that i need to straighten out with some spacers or somat.

It's coming along.

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

nice nice if it spins again humor me and get a nylon lock nut shave it down a bit so more threads get to the nylon and see if that works

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

skinee puppy Wrote:

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> nice nice if it spins again humor me and get a

> nylon lock nut shave it down a bit so more threads

> get to the nylon and see if that works

Can do. I have a bag of them. I'm pretty sure the whole nut would fit on. or it would only require a little bit of finishing work at least.

I just don't know if the heat and ATF would do funky stuff to the nylon.

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

i had to shave mine down a few mm to make the threads work and i had it on my old motor for a few hundred miles with no problems and on the 70cc one as well so far so good

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

brake cleaner and threadlock maybs? and jamming nuts like crazy. I wanna sachs some more.

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

Finally got lights and most of the wiring done. Took it down to the race track and roasted it in 3 miles. My Lights are dope though.

The clutch in my outlined layout seems to hold well under operation but i fuck it up pretty good moving from a stop i think.

Only hit ~45mph as it wouldn't rev out in 2nd. Need too look in the jetting still. I haven't really messed with it beyond my initial jetting guess. All in due time.

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

Turns out the clutch is still good. The front sprocket nut got loose and it fell off the output shaft. It was dark at the time and I didn't really look until today. I put it back on, shit still rips p good. Gotta rejet still.

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

I question the accuracy of Strava at high speed but fuck me we’re getting there.

The difference in gearing between 1 and 2 on these motors is pretty extreme. You really have to rev 1 out to have any ass in 2. At least on my pipe but my god does it have more in it. I just can’t get it to rev real high in 2. Temps are hot I was taking it easy. I can’t tell if it’s slipping in 1 or if it’s just angry at my almost correct jetting.

Uphetted both idle and main. 20 and 130 respectively. Idles too rich and main is too lean me thinks. I’ll check for leaks and fix it another day.

8FFE4CA9-AB70-4560-AD55-9650F699544D.png

(edited)

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) Wrote:

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> I question the accuracy of Strava at high speed

> but fuck me we’re getting there.

Yeah, there's no way 62.6 is right after looking into the data some more. here's a link to it if you want to look. The tracking gets kinda wonky around where it says i hit 62 so. I'll disregard it for now.

Either way, i was with my buddy on an MB5 and I had no real problem keeping up. He was saying i was over 50 which i'll buy ( i'm guessing 52-55). I'll get the vapor set up soon so i can actually see my speed and shit; I'm running out of other things to do anyway.

Motor still has a lot of headroom to wind out yet. 65 should be a realistic goal but there's no way i was hitting that at the revs i was getting.

I'm really talking to myself in this thread these days and that's fine. I'm just trying to put my ideas and thoughts down somewhere so people can neglect to search for it in the future and i can paste the link and reprimand them like a disappointed father for not searching.

Re: Have ye seen deez Sachs Clutch disks

Keep it up bud, i'm still enjoying this thread

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