Single variated vespa idea?

Charlie Mccharles /

This drifts from my build thread so I made this new one. Anyway, I was thinking of ways to get better top end on my ciao and sadly I have the single speed trans. Meaning if I want some variated fun I'd need to buy a new trans.. But there's no problem actually putting a variator on the crankshaft.

So first I thought, maybe dremel out the engine mounting holes and throw a spring behind the engine (the way moby's and pug's work).

But then I got this idea to just put a skateboard wheel tensioner between the front variator and rear pulley, like this:

This way I can gear the pulley for low end and the variator will help with top end. The spring loaded tensioner will take up the slack in low gear and can move out of the way for high gear. Would this work or am I just having stupid dreams of going fast?

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

Totally normal JBOT /

Yup, it would work. Do it.

You could make it manually controlled too.

Steer clear of skateboard wheels. A car idler pulley is better. (edited)

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

Totally normal JBOT /

Shaw did the idler pulley on single variated French style builds

instead of having the engine swing. It's pretty cool idea nonetheless

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

I want a ciao just so I can try this.

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

cool idea, but fyi top speed is better on single speed with good gears than a variated bike with good gears. you just accellerate fast on a variated bike without having to get new clutch shoes twice a year (the cost of tearing ass on a single speed with a dry clutch)

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

Totally normal JBOT /

He'll get the same top speed, just better low end.

It's a win win and manually adjustable via launch lever.

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

Totally normal JBOT /

Wait.....

Can you put a variator on the front and still keep the front crank mounted clutch? I didn't think you could do that

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

I don't think this will work, you need the starter shoes that are on the variated clutch to start the bike. Plus the rear pulley isn't meant to move so the belt won't get a chance to varaite at all. Good idea nevertheless.

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

***VANILLA BLUNDER*** /

JBOT Is bored so I'm back to troll you Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Wait.....

> Can you put a variator on the front and still keep

> the front crank mounted clutch? I didn't think you

> could do that

you cant. you would need a pull or kick start, not that its that big of a deal to come up with. i had a similar idea years ago, but i thought horizontal engine movement with a rear tension spring and a launch lever would be cooler.

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

Charlie Mccharles /

Shit. I totally forgot about starting it. Like Derek says, if you can just put a pawl at the end of the crank I can't imagine I'd be too hard to add a pull start.. Or for those with the kick start ciao's...

If I had a variator I'd try it just for kicks, it would take very little modification of the frame.

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

Totally normal JBOT /

No, I mean the main clutch.

Fuck starting shoes. That's not a deal breaker.

None of my bikes have starter shoes.

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

Totally normal JBOT /

Ninja the loose belt and idler will move duh.

The rear doesn't have to

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

***VANILLA BLUNDER*** /

ahh, rear pulley would have too be a pulley/clutch like a single speed setup, but then you would need the variated output shaft conversion. OR use a clutch pulley from a french bike somehow. OR use a variator/clutch combo and make the crank totally unbalanced and fucking explode. (edited)

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

***VANILLA BLUNDER*** /

engine movement to a pulley like a french bike is the least crazy option, and its still stupid.

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

Totally normal JBOT /

It's not stupid at all man.

It's a great idea if one could just get a way to have a working clutch on the crank outside of the variator (edited)

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

Charlie Mccharles /

The French single variated bikes don't necessarily need a clutch on the pulley right? So wouldn't this work without a clutch as well? So long as you can start it and the belt keeps tension.

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

Idling would be problematic.

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

This can all be solved by just tuning your damn clutch

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

alex . Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This can all be solved by just tuning your damn

> clutch

Bingo.

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

I suspect that a variated trannie has so many moving parts plus the belt and it's transfer of energy onto the pulley cheeks that vs a single speed, top speed will invariably be reduced. Can I prove this directly. I would need a ciao or other single speed to match against my other Vespas. But according to graham who built my bravos polini it easily went 40 on his single speed ciao. And as i documented last night it doesn't do that on my variated bravo. So why all the effort?? Answer: your dead spot on the acceleration?! Correct ? Is it that bad?

Dude when all is said and done go and build that deps engine that you posted the video of instead of mcivering a single pulley solution.

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

Charlie Mccharles /

Hah! You guys are harsh! But really, I was just thinking of a way to get a variator to work on my ciao, even if it can't be dual variated, because those variated trans cases can't be bought new but you can get a variator anytime.

That and I've been watching tomahawk's videos on YouTube and it's making me jealous that I don't have a French variated bike.

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

Totally normal JBOT /

A clutch is not a magic bullet.

Having a larger ratio to play with is a great idea.

Since when were Vespa guys such naysayers?

Is it because vespas are so shitty that you just pray and hope they keep from exploding and that's the best you can get?

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

A pull start Ciao would be pretty sweet

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

Charlie Mccharles /

Actually, my ciao caught on fire today..

I was freaking out praying my moped wouldn't explode and burn into nothingness. Luckily it just burned until the gas that leaked was gone. Combination of shitty ht coil that had a soldered plug cable in a horrible stock mounting position + leaky carb + no air filter + backfire and spark and BAM! It was dark as shit out and I see some glowing from between my legs like wtf is this? FIYAAAHH!! Jumped off and started patting like crazy, good thing I was wearing gloves, and turned off petcock. I was trying to blow at it through my full face helmet and my right glove caught fire too. Opened my tool pouch and threw a rag over it, it went out. Lol good times. But seriously, double check your carb and use a filter and don't try to reuse a shit coil that's placed directly under your carb.

There's my story of the day, i wasn't gonna say anything but JBOT had to make that remark about shitty vespas exploding.. Anyway, mounted a newer old coil and all is well now.

Back to the topic at hand!

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

I'm in the midst of cncing a pull start pulley that also fan cools the single speed clutch.

Jbot, you can regear transmissions and change pulleys from 105mm all the way down to 50mm. There's plenty of range to play with.

When people complain about slow nonvariated vespas being turds of the line, it's because they have 40 year old sprints that engage at 50rpm and shoes that weigh 150 grams each.

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

Why would you mount a coil there? That's silly

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

The thing about the transmission is that they're almost the same internally, so you won't get any benefit from less drag from it. Jbot I'm not naysaying... he could do it, he wouldn't be able to idle very well at all, with zero tension on the belt the weights will try and move with no resistance causing it to try and grab the belt even at idle rpms. On an er3 with an idler bearing the variator sits a bit wider fully open so there is space for the belt to not touch the ramp plates. Also the belt shape will be problematic. There are Alot of hurdles to overcome with not much benefit over a dual variated setup.

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

Totally normal JBOT /

You don't understand the concept then.

The belt would be under tension by the idler pulley attached to a spring and an rotating arm.

The spring acts like a contra.

As the front variates, the vari would close, and the idler would resist but move to give the vari belt room to close.

Only problem would be adding a variator and a clutch on the crank.

That's the only hangup. Bet an adaptor of sorts could be made (edited)

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

Totally normal JBOT /

So yeah, an idler er3 could be adapted and that would cover the idle function

Re: Single variated vespa idea?

Totally normal JBOT /

There isn't any real advantage beside being able to manually manipulate the idler pulley to act like a manual shifting launch lever.

It's very clever and would be fun to ride.

Just gotta get the clutching worked out up front

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