Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

I had a pair of really nice 16" Italian spokes and attempted to do a sealed conversion on them. Guess what? The wheels had NO LIP in the hub for bearings to sit on. So I tried it anyway -- did not work, bearings just slid right and left out of the hub, even with everything clamped down. Anyone get around this somehow?

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

we used exhaust pipe.. slides right in. i been a long time, drill a hole in the pipe and deburr before installing then tack weld :)Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/16 11:40AM by mopagen.

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

So here's the trouble, no lip.

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I was thinking about trying snap-ring bearings. I wonder how much lateral force there is? Would the snap rings be strong enough?

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

#Crazy Wayne ™ ROCK'S, #Crazy Wayne /

You want to get some bearings that the outer race has a shoulder on it they use them on wheelchairs

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

Could replace the hub if worse comes to worse.

What about a steel sleeve tube drilled and tapped and screwed in from the outside of the hub like the idle pulley disc brake setup idea?

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

#Crazy Wayne ™ ROCK'S, #Crazy Wayne /

http://www.spinlife.com/Invacare-Bearing-Flange---1/2-Caster-Wheel-Assemblies/spec.cfm?productID=87274&adv=googlepla&utm_medium=CSE&utm_source=googlepla&default=1&utm_term=&utm_campaign=610148043

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001OK8LAQ/

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/17 10:27PM by jayleanbiatch.

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

Bobbie Anderson /

I was just messing with the exact same problem the other day. Be interesting to see what you have come up with. So far I tried the ''try it anyway'' method.

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

I say just get different rims. Anything else would prob be a little dangerous.

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

Bobbie Anderson /

Maybe loctite a shorter length tube inside the other to create the lip to sit against..

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

Ya know, I just did one of these (Garelli spoke wheel) a few weeks ago. Used a piece of aluminum pipe as a spacer.

Totally didn't think about lateral movement until now.

UUUUUUhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........ I should probably look at that. It's been good for a few hundred miles so far though. I recall the bearings being pretty snug.

Using a piece of pipe tacked on as a lip is a good idea though.

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

Converting another one of these wheels to sealed bearings in a few days. This time is a front.

The bore is 32mm which is super close to 1.25". Got a length of 1.25" steel tube I'm gonna drill a couple holes in the center of and tack weld into the hub. Should work pretty good.

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

I recently started working on this problem

So far ive come up with this

The stock Italian bearing cups fit 6001 bearings like a press fit

The axel OD is smaller than the bearing ID

So far ive used the cone nut that keeps the stock bearings in place to push up against the center of the bearing

Ideally you would want something inbetween the 2 bearings or some kind of sleeve that makes up the space ....by the time i figure out something solid treats will have the spacers back in stock

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

Using the cups. Not bad, I didn't think of that.

Without cups, you want 6201 bearings which i totally forgot to order.

Are you using a 12mm axle? cause 6001 is a 12mm bearing.Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/17 03:51PM by drgeorgetompson.

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

Yup stock 12 mm axel and its not a perfect fit but soo damn close im trying to sneeze right to get something to work

Should i post a picture?

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

A stock loose bearing axle is almost definitely 11mm. Very few are 12mm

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

Yea yea ....so what should i do Dr.?

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

uh, get the right axle lol. I believe in you!

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

I have so many rims they all have this same axel only most are bent....if i could only build a small .25mm bridge all the way around and save italian mopeders from crunchy wheels for now and forever...

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

Im currently converting my motron which had 16in grimeca 5 stars(i believe thats what they're called). It has 12mm axles but had loose bearings. Not sure which bearing i would need as the 6201 bearings i had were way to small. I honestly just haven't measured the bore spacing to get new bearings coming. Until i figure something else out ill likely use the bearing cone as a spacer like you guys stated earlier

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

Idk why I didnt see these before. But here is 6201s with a retaining ring. They are expensive as hellEdited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/17 12:29PM by drgeorgetompson.

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

Baron Von Hamilton /

Maybe I am confused by all this.

I have done quite a few of these with no lips to retain the bearings.

Get a bearing that’s OD is sung to go in the ID of the hub.

Make a spacer for the inside so you can tighten down the axle without binding the bearings. I found some spaces I cut down from an Ace Hardware.

Just got to make sure everything is spaced correctly in the end.

I think those bearing with the cups will bined when tightened.

Idk maybe I am missing something from this post.

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

Years ago, I tried to do mine with bearings, spacers, everything correct. The entire assembly wanted to fall out to either side. In a situation with no internal lips, the only thing holding the bearings in place are the outer diameter metal of the bearings themselves within the hub of the wheel. So it can be all pushed out from either side. Scary.

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

Baron Von Hamilton /

Ya I guess it is how tight the tolerances for the bearings are. I got a set on a bike now I have to knock in with a rubber mallet. They have not moved since. I could see how it could be scary If they sit a little loose in the hub.....yikes.

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

Yeah i mentioned earlier that i put sealed bearings in a lipless rear wheel. They are still in there and haven't moved. I did use an axle that has one side with longer threads and the brake plate is held on with a nut so even then it can only slide out in one direction.

Either way, a 32mm bearing should have enough interference to not move for a long long time. I'm still gonna weld a lip into this next hub just for piece of mind.

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

Made a thing and tacked it in with a good ol' rabbit turd. Should work just dandy.

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

I finished the sealed conversion on this wheel (from an 84 Basic) yesterday. Speedo drive side was very tight. Brake side would pop out without much pressure.

So i guess it's just a good idea to play it by ear. My last wheel (from a 78 SSXL) was tight on both sides and i'm not really worried about it coming apart. I am glad i put a lip in this one.

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

I need to do this on my rear wheel. I’m thinking of putting 2 bearings on the sprocket side of the hub like an old Honda dirt bike.

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

Baron Von Hamilton /

> Baron Von Hamilton Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Ya I guess it is how tight the tolerances for the bearings are. I got a

> set on a bike now I have to knock in with a rubber mallet. They have

> not moved since. I could see how it could be scary If they sit a little

> loose in the hub.....yikes.

Well I am a fuck up....

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I can admit when I am wrong and I am completely wrong on this one. The Gerimeca Snowflakes have one lip on one side then another random internal lip deeper in the hub. I thought it was snug enough to not move I was wrong it moved a lot! Probably 5mm.

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Squared the tire off nicely. The rider was lucky it did not bind up.

Re: Sealed Bearing Conversion on Non-Lipped Italian Spokes

Baron Von Hamilton /

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Well I fixed it. Use a pice if mountain bike fork tube. Made a shim so the other shins can still pass inside. Shim-ception.

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Back together to break again!Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/17 06:00PM by erich.

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