What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

Hey guys!! =)

Just bought a bravo because the ciao really screwed my back up being hardtail. Ciao has a 43mm malossi with drilled intake, high flow air filter, 13/13 carb, increased timing (stock modded) crank.

My Superbravo. Daily ride/commute and ride-for-fun-bike. Smart performance options needed. I value reliability very highly. No decompression valve and a kick. Electric ignition/CDI. Would love to keep kick if possible, otherwise I'ts OK to run-start it.

Stuff I already have on my desk:

-Malossi mutlivar, a ton of different weights

-yellow counter spring

-polini top one exhaust

-tecno circuit exhaust

-stock dellorto 13/13 carb (no drilled)

-malossi high flow air filter (red filtered one)

-stock gears 12.25:1

-odd gears 8:1 (?) for 30mph market i was told

-malossi clutch springs (3 different strengths, stock, extra and race)

Note: I could buy a 43mm kit but would need help drilling out intake which would totally cost more than selling the complete stock engine and buy this stuff and put it together more or less myself.

Suggestion so far:

malossi cylinder kit 46,5mm $160 (assumption: best kit pre-D.E.P.S which is steep as hell at $300 = unsmart)

mazzucchelli vespa piaggio anticipato racing crankshaft $150 ($120 + shipping to europe)

Alternative crank: Top racing pre-modded for longer opening: $110 (including shipping)

Questions, skip the ones you no want/no can to answer:

Question 1:

Should I go with

A) Polini Speedengine $150

B) Malossi Reed valve carter $162 (which opens up for 19 PHBG for additional $200 in the future if wanted)

Question 2:

What crank is the best of the two? Cost is so close so does not matter so much.

Question 3:

What hp/kw could be expected with this kit?

Question 4:

To compare and determine: what hp/kw could be expected with 43mm? What hp/kw could be expected with D.E.P.S kit which is additional $150?

I am thinking: Malossi case, malossi 46,5mm, top racing crank, stock gearing, yellow spring, appropriate clutch springs that grip on xxxx rpm. That would put be back about $332 + decomp lever etc. Then if still unhappy, go wild with the 19mm carb for +$200.

Pro feedback? =)

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

IMHO mazz crank is way nicer.

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

Kk, then that was settled unless someone else is of the opposite taste - in which case you will duel =P

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

Malossi crank in the malossi case.

I bought a mazz crank for my malossi case once and the lobes didn't fit.

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

Extra info:

Prefer nice acceleration before high top speed. Top speed at 70kph / 45mph is enough.

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

Thanks Ben Whittle, will bare that in mind!

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

***VANILLA BLUNDER*** /

malossi cases are not worth the money if you dont need to go 50+. use the stock rear spring, its the best. DR kkit has amazing power and is cheap. small carb for an everyday bike, keep your gas mileage under control.

save your money. DR 43mm, Mazz crank, 13/13 with a drilled intake, circuit pipe will treat you well and not crush your wallet.

i have the stock 12:1 gears, DR, stock crank, polini vario, 13/13 without drilling out the intake, proma circuit and it does 46 and rips off the line. its so easy to go overboard on vespa stuff when really its not what you even need.

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

1)You will likely have to have any crank besides the stock one machined to accept the ks parts.

2)Agree that unless top speed is a concern aftermarket cases are tough to come by. The polini speed would be my first choice though. Problem may be that aftermarket ks cases are difficult to find. Modifying the stock case is probably best.

3) There are a few great 38-43mm kits and pipes. I really like the 46mm pinasco acceleration-it would need case boring but minimal work to transfers.

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

Declan g Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> 1)You will likely have to have any crank besides

> the stock one machined to accept the ks parts.

> 2)Agree that unless top speed is a concern

> aftermarket cases are tough to come by. The

> polini speed would be my first choice though.

> Problem may be that aftermarket ks cases are

> difficult to find. Modifying the stock case is

> probably best.

> 3) There are a few great 38-43mm kits and pipes.

> I really like the 46mm pinasco acceleration-it

> would need case boring but minimal work to

> transfers.

Derek and Declan, thanks good feedback!

Have marked questions in bold! =)

Declan, i figured "ks parts" is for kickstart, so I guess I have to scratch kickstart in favor of keeping simplicity and cost down (any engine mods need to be handed to a $100 machine shop because of my lack of skill). Machine shop told me that pulling the intake plug and machine to fit a 46mm would be $200-$300. So a aftermarket case is cheaper in my case, even though I lose the kickstart. Also, I can sell the stock engine and that option becomes even sweeter.

My options are therefore:

Mod stock case and insert 46mm: $300-400

Buy new case, crank, 46mm and sell old engine ($200-300): $200-300

I am leaning toward malossi instead of polini because of the possibility of 19mm carb (inside the case) - price is the same - what are the benefits of the polini against malossi?

Regarding pinasco 46mm, sounds really nice - want as much acceleration as possible. Was warned about longevity/reliability of alu cylinder kits though, compared to cast iron - is that anything to care about? Will the pinasco require need transfer work on malossi case or polini case?

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

you could probably save on shipping if you buy from one of the european sites like 50cc.nl, also easier to find ks stuff in europe.

gl

~M

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

Dirty30 Dillon /

I have a pinasco kit and r Malossi rv engine. The transfers are super close on only need the tiniest bit of massaging to fit perfect.

But, the kick start is awesome.

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

There are intakes available to run larger dellorto sha carbs, bing, phbg dellorto, and I believe even mikuni on polini speed cases.-I think this typically ends up cheaper than going with reed valve cases.

You can do all the mods with a hand drill and file, you could get some standard cases to practice on and keep the cost lower.

I would spend the time looking for a kickstart aftermarket case if you go that route. The Superbravos are pretty cool, kind of nice not to make changes. There will be some funny buisness getting a freewheel for pedal start to work too.

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

Nice, thanks for reply Dillon and Declan!

Declan, I have googled like crazy (since even before starting this post) to find larger carbs/intakes for Polini speed engine - found zero! Have any good links or info to point me in the right direction?

Performance wise the cases seem to be about the same - how would you grade them reliability-wise and plug-and-play-friendliness for a mod-allergic like me? =)

Regards!

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

Ben the parts can all be gotten in the eu. Look at the posts in the buy and sell and search for the various mag wheels set from Frederick. He runs a web site that has a shitload of Vespa stuff and he is quite quite knowledgeable on Vespas. He should have what you want and probably knows whom would drill out your intake etc if you want to make your Vespa go fast. Take it from someone who didn't go dr.... Go dr with the 64 cc kit. A 45 mph bike shouldn't need a reed aftermarket engine. The techno circuit is what I have and it's cute but again has a too long stinger. My next pipe is a calibrata.

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

motobecane av7 intakes bolt on fairly easily to the speed engine.

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

Dirty30 Dillon /

Marc Friedman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ben the parts can all be gotten in the eu. Look

> at the posts in the buy and sell and search for

> the various mag wheels set from Frederick. He runs

> a web site that has a shitload of Vespa stuff and

> he is quite quite knowledgeable on Vespas. He

> should have what you want and probably knows whom

> would drill out your intake etc if you want to

> make your Vespa go fast. Take it from someone who

> didn't go dr.... Go dr with the 64 cc kit. A 45

> mph bike shouldn't need a reed aftermarket engine.

> The techno circuit is what I have and it's cute

> but again has a too long stinger. My next pipe is

> a calibrata.

Good advice here.

You don't need aftermarket cases and such. Go with a DR 43mm, or a Malossi 43mm, drill your intake and cut your intake patch. You might have a roller crank already, I know my Ciao PX came with one (and it;s from a similar era) so that's set.

As for pipe's, I actually love the Tecno on my 49cc Ciao, but it gave me nothing but heartache with the 43 malossi engine I built (Kept cooking my pistons around the wrist pin hole). NOw I've got a Proma circuit (B+) and a Polini Top One (A) and won't buy another Tecno after feeling how much better the proma is on the bigger cylinder.

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

Marc:

Thanks for feedback. Yes dr 64 cc have I heard a lot of nice stuff about. But as mentioned above, the price is the same as with a brand new Polini speed engine or Malossi, including 46mm.

Daniel:

Thanks!

What means "fairly easily"?

So basically

This: https://www.treatland.tv/motobecane-malossi-PHBG-shorty-intake-PACK-p/av7-malossi-phbg-pack-204018.htm

And this: https://www.treatland.tv/dellorto-PHBG-21mm-p/dellorto-phbg-21-as-2557.htm

Will fit on the speed engine? I wonder though, if it have room inside the frame for air filter, or can you just use a rubberband and some lady stockings? (seriously! =D) ?

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

Dirty30 Dillon /

Ben Dover Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Marc:

> Thanks for feedback. Yes dr 64 cc have I heard a

> lot of nice stuff about. But as mentioned above,

> the price is the same as with a brand new Polini

> speed engine or Malossi, including 46mm.

They are NOT the same price.

DR kit= $120 + $40 head + maybe ~110 crank.

SpeedCase with 46mm kit = 155 cases + 180 kit + ~110 crank

Malossi RV with Pinasco = 216 cases + 160 kit + 225 crank

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

Well, if you imagine they WERE the same price according to the calculations above, just for the sake of solving this issue. I presume the two aftermarket cases with 46mm is better than the stock case with 43mm. So between the two, would you grade them reliability-wise and plug-and-play-friendliness for a mod-allergic like me? =) what option would be best?

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

he doesn't think he's smart enough to port a vespa case/ cut crank... thinks it will cost 200-300 bucks to have done

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

Dirty30 Dillon /

Well, the mods to make the DR kit work on the stock cases are minimal, requiring a dremel and some hand files.

If you believe you can successfully assemble a Reed Valve Malossi motor, you should be confident enough to do a bit of filing. And if you are looking to learn, the cheaper way is better. Rather than cooking a $600 malossi motor.

And, the DR/stock case combo will be more reliable and you get to keep your rare KS motor and CDI.

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

Dirty30 Dillon /

Graham Motzing Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> he doesn't think he's smart enough to port a vespa

> case/ cut crank... thinks it will cost 200-300

> bucks to have done

That's silly. Among the pages of this website are all the info you need to know to get the job done.

Hell, I just split my cases, busted out the dremel and went to town on a whim.

It's not rocket appliances, it's just mopeds.

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

So when done bashing, anyone care to answer the question?

Re: What kit out of these? SuperBravo yea! =)

Dirty30 Dillon /

DR43mm.

Less money, less overall hassle, more reliability.

« Go to Topics — end of thread

Want to post in this forum? We'd love to have you join the discussion, but first:

Login or Create Account