Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

Hey guys, I'm doing my first kit on my urban express (mostly because I have to due to soft seizing the stock piston). It's the stocko shocko kit from treats. I got it in the mail today and it came with the piston rings already on the piston. I took a couple photos of the ring spacing because they just seem really loose , are they supposed to be that loose? Any other suggeStions for installing this kit?

Thanks...any and all help is appreciated!

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Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

Impossible to assess in the manner you describe.

They usually fit loose when the piston is out of the cylinder

You need to remove each ring and note whether it is an upper or lower on some kits. Then follow directions in the WIKI. And read posts on how to measure and adjust ring GOP and most importantly read on how to remove and install the rings before you break one just taking not off for the first time admin did.

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

Take them off the piston and piston one in the bore. You will see that they close up and then you can measure the gap with a feeler gauge while the ring is in the bore.

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

Ok how do I adjust the ring after I know the gap?

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

File the ring ends to adjust to appropriate gap.

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

Okay...we'll as it stands right now when I fit the ring into the cylinder at perfect level the two ends are just kissing each other perfectly...so if I'm understanding this right I will have to file the ends to the appropriate gap as stated in the wiki

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

correct.

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

Ryan N. Wrote:

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> correct.

Yup. If the ring ends are touching now, then when they expand due to heat they will press against each other. This will cause an outward bulge that will either snag a port, wear the ring excessively, overheat into a seizure or simply break the ring entirely.

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

Gruff "(OFMC)" - /

that ring spring goes on the lower ring

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

What ring spring? This a 4 stroke piston with an oil ring lol?

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

Okay...so I got the kit installed...after further inspection (I didn't realize how close the tolerances were on ring gaps) I concluded that the ring spacing was okay.

I've got the bike running (solving one air leak at a time in the process). I started it and let it idle for about 5 or 10 mins. varying the throttle just a very little up and down. I'm happy with it, and everything seems to be working fine the only concern I have is that there's a faint 'pinging' sort of noise that's in the background coming from the cylinder area. So my question is: Is this normal? Is it just the crisp edges and rings seating themselves? Or is it the edge of a ring catching on a port? I took the cylinder back off and inspected the rings and piston and they were seated right where they should be circ. clips and all and everything looked great- Nice and wet (it's running rich). Put it back together and I'm still hearing that slight pinging sort of sound, but other than that's it's running great.

Thanks again guys.

-B

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

piston is prolly tapping the head....due to the larger 44mm piston circumference /40mm recess in the head..

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

Okay...would I need to get a different head or shouldn't this bother anything?

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

That is not the case at all. You are hearing the difference between a cast iro cylinder and aluminum. That ringing is the fins amplifying the rings running up and down past the ports.

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

I'n not saying it is tapping, but I would start by checking it by sticking some solder through the spark plug hole, crank it over, then measure the solder...if it is touching, you can reshape the head , use two gaskets or get a new head..it could be the piston touching the head gasket if you used a 40mm head gasket..

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

I did use the 40mm gasket, because the new one had air leaks like a sieve. Yeah I'm def. going to stick the solder in tonight and see what's going in there. If it's not hitting, I'll pull the head and check the gasket and see if that's it. If not either, I'll know it's just the ringing of the kit/aluminum. The kit in this video is the same one I put on and sounds just like it (at 1:20).

Thanks

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

I have had a large bore piston touch a stock gasket, but it was more of a fwap fwap fwap, scraping type of noise. If the gasket that came with the kit was used you can rule it out.

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

Right, but it had the grooves in it and you could feel the air pressing out on your hand underneath the cylinder (although it was making the same noise with that gasket as it is now so I'm fairly certain it's not rubbing the gasket)

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

Moby Express /

If it has decompression on the cylinder it is leaking through that.

The head will seal the cylinder but it won't seal the decompression passage as the head is not wide enough to fully cover that hole in the gasket.

M6 x 1.0 tap the hole and stick a screw in there.

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

Emil Kniemel /

Brandon C. Wrote:

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> I did use the 40mm gasket, because the new one had

> air leaks like a sieve. Yeah I'm def. going to

> stick the solder in tonight and see what's going

> in there. If it's not hitting, I'll pull the head

> and check the gasket and see if that's it. If not

> either, I'll know it's just the ringing of the

> kit/aluminum. The kit in this video is the same

> one I put on and sounds just like it (at 1:20).

>

>

> Thanks

i had that same noise. its the piston hitting the gasket probably. i ran it like that for a looooooong time. finally melted the gasket into the cylinder and was horrendous.

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

Well, it's confirmed, the gasket mirrors the back of the head and it's hitting both basically (hits the gasket, take the gasket off-it hits the head). So I know my options are basically get more gasket shimmage (whether it be base or head) or get a different head.

Couple questions about these options...

How big (thick) is the paper base gasket I could get at the auto store? Would I combine it with the original base gasket that's on now? By doing this would I ruin my compression?

If I go the route of a different head would the high compression 70cc type heads on treats work? Will a different head mess with my compression? And finally, will a different head have the three hoses my stock on does now going to it? If not, (which it doesn't look like it has the spot for them) what do I do with those hoses?

or...would this just work in place of base gasket?

https://www.treatland.tv/MLM-honda-hobbit-metal-base-plate-spacer-1mm-p/mlm-hobbit-metal-spacer-382.htm

Thanks guys/gals

-B (edited)

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

If your gasket it being pushed up to the head then your gasket is not large enough and is being pushed up by the piston. A stock 40mm gasket will be smaller and hangs into the bore. You likely just need the right sized gasket and the piston won't hit. Without a head gasket it's practically guaranteed that it will hit as the thickness of the gasket it just slightly less than optimum squish.

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

Yeah you're right. There's a clear as day ring around the gasket (see figure one) and I'm going to try and make the 'bore' of the gasket larger. I'm guessing the thickness of the gasket though is only .1/.2 mm thick. I'm hard pressed to believe the piston won't hit the head with only the thickness of the gasket out of the way though...I may still make some shims out of tin can though just to see if it's a successful procedure.

gasket.jpg

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

Okay, got the gasket bore enlarged by drilling a hole (1 3/4" or 44.45mm in a piece of plywood). Fastened the gasket down centered over the hole with tape (image 1). Ran a dremel around the inside of the hole until it was out to the edge of the wood. End result (image 2).

Not sure if it will be enough squish or if the piston will still hit the head, so just in case I made 2 gaskets out of tin can (.09/.1 mm thick) as shims (image 3).

gasket1.jpg
gasket2.jpg
gasket3.jpg

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

And after cutting one out:

gasket4.jpg

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

Emil Kniemel /

so does it hit still?

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

I don't know...won't know until I install tonight. I will update then though for sure.

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

You're doin' this the right way. Kudos.

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

Thanks Boyd-I appreciate it

UPDATE: installed bored out gasket and soda can shims. It was significantly better, although still was pinging just a little bit when revved to higher Rpms so I'll just need to add one or maybe two more shims.

No air leaks with them either which was great. I'll have to ride it hard and get it a lot hotter though before I can claim victory but it seems I'm on the right track.

Thanks guys

-B

Re: Stocko shocko kit question-nu50

I don't condone this method, but it works....you can use a small file to "knock down" the edge or ridge to give you the clearance without lowering your compression..center the gasket you made on the head and scribe a perimeter to guide you. (adding shims also creates more possibilities for air leaks)

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