temp gauge

have a trailtech on order...

install w/o crush washer? if so, how do i remove the crush washer w/o mangling the threads.

also, any tips so that i don't screw up the wires? i'm going to be swapping it out between 2 peds...

thx!

Re: temp gauge

Super glue, all over where the wire comes out around on the sensor. My first one broke on that spot. The second one has held up with superglue. Or buy another one of these,

https://www.treatland.tv/trail-tech-sensor-p/trail-tech-sensor-7500-3014.htm

And just swap out the gauge. Probably best bet.

Re: temp gauge

i leave the crush washer on the plug and put the copper ring adjacent to the head.

Re: temp gauge

Graham Motzing Wrote:

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> i leave the crush washer on the plug and put the

> copper ring adjacent to the head.

To get ambient air temps? Haha

Re: temp gauge

Overpriced Parts /

Graham Motzing Wrote:

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> i leave the crush washer on the plug and put the

> copper ring adjacent to the head.

No^ don't do that

The extra gap lets cooling air through giving a false reading and or delay in reading (per trail tech rep). Twist off the crush gasket holding on the side of it with a pair of channel locks/pliers and your spark plug tool twisting the plug. It comes right off some cases you could twisted off with just your hand (edited)

Re: temp gauge

do it however you want, but its never given me a problem doing it that way. I also don't break the sensors because the sensor doesn't turn with the plug and pull the wires out.

i also don't ride around all the time with it left on my bikes. I get them tuned in correctly, take it off, and ride the fuck outta them never knowing what my temps are.

Re: temp gauge

thx all..

i"ll probably epoxy the wires to the sensor and then dremel out inside of the ring sensor so i can take it on and off for the different bikes...

primarily gonna use to tune so yeah, i won't be leaving it on the bikes for long...just to get jetting timing set for optimum...

if i'm doing that would mounting it under the crush washer give accurate readings?

Re: temp gauge

I just use wire cutters to remove the washer from the plug. I tried twisting it off and it was hard so the cutters came off and 2 seconds later walah

Re: temp gauge

matt boda1nz /

don't dremel it too big or the hole will not be totally covered up by the plug body and you will have an air leak. ask me how I know.

gotta have the copper ring on the plug. ask me how I know.

Re: temp gauge

good tip...thx!

Re: temp gauge

Overpriced Parts /

Leave it on the bike and get one for every kitted bike you have

If you get a air leak or wrong mix or something you are warned by the hot temps .

I just recently had up carb come loose and the temperature went up because of air leak and because of the gauge I was able to fix the carburetor on the fly instead of it falling off or worse

Good insurance for 40.00

Re: temp gauge

thx ken...i'll probably do that after i see where my temps are currently...just bought the one cuz i have no idea where i'm at now...i've owned them for a couple of years but the kits are newish...both 50cc kits

i have a feeling i'm running a tad hot but really would like to be sure...

so to sum up...

install w/o crush gasket, epoxy the wire to the sensor and order either another terminal or another temp gauge...

Re: temp gauge

Definitely get one for each kitted bike. These are known for going bad when messed with too often. If worst comes to worst, get at least a sensor for each bike and just swap out the display.

Re: temp gauge

i have a million cycles on several of them. There is no trick, just keep the ring in the un-threaded part of the spark plug when taking it out & be really careful with the thing in general. Hold it still & keep it seated on the plug side while unscrewing your plug.

Re: temp gauge

I leave the plug washer on. Seems to work fine

Re: temp gauge

Emil Kniemel /

hmm. i have the washer on.

i recently softseized at a temp < 400 deg.

Re: temp gauge

Overpriced Parts /

Emil Kniemel Wrote:

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> hmm. i have the washer on.

>

> i recently softseized at a temp < 400 deg.

Yes depending on the bike/head it will read a lower temp and cool real quick with the plug crush washer on. It was probably 450f when you seized

The plug crush washer acts like a insulator. You need both sides of the sensor covered with same hot temperature( plug and head) nothin between.

Again per trail tech: remove crush washer people

Re: temp gauge

Cheaper, more robust and type K. Any moderate level multimeter can read type K and stand alone readers are cheap. Oven and boiling water verified to be accurate. Total cost, $9. I've since made it more pretty with shrink tubing and what not.

Fuck a trailtech.

Re: temp gauge

^ so how do i make one of those???

Re: temp gauge

Overpriced Parts /

Show the dash Vom meter

Re: temp gauge

Lol... I just cram the meter into my cables... It's an el-cheapo automotive multimeter and I use it for tons of stuff. I'm with graham and only like to use temp sensors during setup, not once I have a setup tuned. Usually I'll just feel the fin with my finger while I'm going up monster hills or over-revving and I can tell if it's getting close to too hot or way too hot. I've almost had accidents looking at temp sensors before in traffic and by reaching down to feel it I don't have to look away from the road.

I've cut down on the metal mass from the picture above (removed the bolt from the thermocouple and decreased the amount of solder in the terminal crimp end), but even with the reduced mass, it's still more thermal mass to heat than a trailtech. You'll know if you're in the too hot ballpark though and that's all I wanted. The sensor was within 2 degrees of what I expected in the oven and boiling water, so I feel like worst case scenario with the increased mass it's 10*F low. I'll have to compare to someone with a trailtech at a rally. It'll for sure tell you if you're in the ball park - and that's all you really need.

It's just a large copper electrical terminal + plumbing solder + amazon thermocouple.

I've used it to play around with how much timing I can get away with on my derbi and as a verification of temps on my vespa.

You can pickup type K readers super cheap though if you don't want to buy a multimeter

Completely repairable, re-usable, more widespread and available. You end up with more function for your money too IMO. You can weld up bungs with compression fittings and use them for EGT too. (edited)

Re: temp gauge

that's cool...how do you use it with a multimeter?

Re: temp gauge

Well, the multimeter has to have a thermocouple reading function on it... A lot of automotive intended use ones do.

Re: temp gauge

thx...i'll chk...

good to know in case my trailtech takes a crap...

Re: temp gauge

Ken Roff Wrote:

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> The plug crush washer acts like a insulator. You

> need both sides of the sensor covered with same

> hot temperature( plug and head) nothin between.

> Again per trail tech: remove crush washer people

Insulating between what and what? High temp and High temp?

The threads conduct heat the same

the bottom surface of the spark plug conducts heat from the plug, into the head through the crush washer

the copper terminal conducts heat the same whether it has a washer against it or not

the head conducts heat the same into the copper.

the copper seals to the head

the washer seals to the head

the washer seals to the copper

its exactly the same, i'm just fucking lazy and snce i'm going to take the thing off after 2 or 3 test runs, and i want to use my same spark plug, i don't bother taking the washer off. I also re-use crush gaskets. holy shit tell the tuning police that i'm 'doing it wrong'

you seized at less than 400 degrees because you don't know how to tune. CHT tells you the temp of your cylinder head, you seize because your piston gets too hot and expands in the bore, the two temperatures are only circumstantially similar.

Up until last summer i never seized anything ever. I've built dozens and dozens of engines, all sorts of different wacky shit and up until 2 years ago never even ran a CHT...

people tuned 2 stroke engines for 70 years before anyone ever heard of a trail tech. CHT is a stupid tool that tells you useless garbage stupid data and everyone thinks it came out of Jesus' vag or something.

Re: temp gauge

Lol

Re: temp gauge

Overpriced Parts /

Yes I was tuning puchs with no gauge when you weren't even born maybe. No it's a different reading on my puch heads and the plug won't stick far enough in with both washer and sensor on. Cheep ass puch kits can't hold heat like many French or Honda kits

Being lazy and not removing the sensor it doesn't mean it's right .

People (no names mentioned) don't break in kits even though manufactures say so too. The more you follow the manufacturers specification and not cut corners as a beginner the better off you are

The more you do the right not lazy way the better chance as a "noob" you don't have a failure . Seasoned professionals makes no difference/do not apply.

I always post info for a noob

Not for Someone who knows his stuff. (edited)

Re: temp gauge

Emil Kniemel /

Graham Motzing Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ken Roff Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > The plug crush washer acts like a insulator.

> You

> > need both sides of the sensor covered with same

> > hot temperature( plug and head) nothin between.

> > Again per trail tech: remove crush washer

> people

>

>

> Insulating between what and what? High temp and

> High temp?

>

> The threads conduct heat the same

> the bottom surface of the spark plug conducts heat

> from the plug, into the head through the crush

> washer

> the copper terminal conducts heat the same whether

> it has a washer against it or not

> the head conducts heat the same into the copper.

>

> the copper seals to the head

> the washer seals to the head

> the washer seals to the copper

>

> its exactly the same, i'm just fucking lazy and

> snce i'm going to take the thing off after 2 or 3

> test runs, and i want to use my same spark plug, i

> don't bother taking the washer off. I also re-use

> crush gaskets. holy shit tell the tuning police

> that i'm 'doing it wrong'

>

> you seized at less than 400 degrees because you

> don't know how to tune. CHT tells you the temp of

> your cylinder head, you seize because your piston

> gets too hot and expands in the bore, the two

> temperatures are only circumstantially similar.

>

> Up until last summer i never seized anything ever.

> I've built dozens and dozens of engines, all sorts

> of different wacky shit and up until 2 years ago

> never even ran a CHT...

>

> people tuned 2 stroke engines for 70 years before

> anyone ever heard of a trail tech. CHT is a stupid

> tool that tells you useless garbage stupid data

> and everyone thinks it came out of Jesus' vag or

> something.

i aint gonna argue with that! switching from stock hobbit carb to vm18 i switched out my plug too and relied on the CHT rather than the ol' "plug chop".

Re: temp gauge

Graham Motzing Wrote:

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> everyone thinks it came out of Jesus' vag or

> something.

^this is what I was laughing at.

Much love to ken and graham. I've seized twice since 2008. Happens to erbody eventually. Both times were mild airleaks that I probably could've gotten away with if I wasn't pushing high timing.

I took my vespa up to 470 one time. ~nuff said~

Re: temp gauge

wow! i didn't realize this was gonna stir the pot so much!

i was just hoping to see where i'm at as far a temps go...lol

pretty mild mods on both my 50cc kits but out of curiosity i was wanting to see where i'm at temperature wise...

i have a feeling i'm running hot on my puch...the pug i'm not too worried about it's always seemed bomb-proof...

good info from all tho'

thx

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