MOPED ARMY

Do you have a kit on it ?

Yes when the clutch grabs it drops the RPMs, but if you have enough power you can build up and overcome that lag. Try 2 balls and 2 star springs to get higher rev so you can get into the power you need.

Otherwise you need a clutch pulley.

I don't know either, but it works. My engine revs to about 4600 before it moves at all with 3balls/2 springs. If I lay on the throttle it will grab and take off decently while only dropping the RPMs to 3800'ish and the revs pick right back up, even uphill.

All the retardedness of starter clutch mods aside, I found some sort of weird vintage race clutch that fits a lot tighter in the housing than the stock clutch; seems to stall engagement another 500-1k with 2 balls. Looks similar to the tjt, but I can't say for sure.

cheetahchrome . Wrote:

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Cheetah, I love your advice usually, but here I think you're wrong. Just like on my hobbit, my peugeot starter clutches bog the motor as soon as I get to pedal starting speeds.

cheetahchrome . Wrote:

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Yes but it gets into play again as soon as the bike starts rolling.

The speed (i.e. rear will rpms) of start clutch engaging will always be relatively low otherwise bike won't start.

The rpms at which main clutch engages and bike gets into movement may be as high as you like, but once the starter ctutch reaches speed at which bike normally starts, it will engage all the same and bog down the motor.

"Or that nagging drone when the clutch seem to be not quite released and you know something is dragging so you start to bang on the variator with your left boot heel but you know the only way is to kill the bike and rock it back and forth.

Only when its hot though."

Yes... This. I fucking hate this more than anything I have ever hated that is moped related. Motor gets hot and stuck. Won't even come unstuck after a few miles. I have went to 3 balls and 2 clutch springs, then to 3 clutch springs. The three springs kinda helped, but it made the clutch engage so high I hated it. It would just rev high as hell catch and bog some, then go.

I think that the heat in the clutch is causing the clutch springs to loose their tension? FUUUUCK, I need to just go clutched pulley and be done with it but that shit is expensive. Maybe I need to drill some holes in the clutch bell and cool this clutch down. Next time I'm in the shop I'll give it a shot and report back.

Some how some way.. get rid of the starter clutch shoes.

Yes Ed, I am finding out what you and most everyone else might already know. The starter shoes keep you from getting that long hi reving, clutch stinking, cock hardening take off from a stop,

I did some runs with my shoes out and It was a perfect launch with no bog down caused by the starters.

Did you think there would not be a tutorial? Have a seat.

Figured I would use my polini street runner that I ride 3 times a week for this experiment. Plus it had gas.

I remove the variator and shuck the parts out on the table. This setup has three balls and one star. the shoes came out really easy since I keep my stuff pretty well maintained.

Note to Charlie: see the little brass washer there? I got a pack of those from ACE hardware. It lays right under the beveled washer on top of the inner bearing race and plastic washer. helps with the binding. I think they are called sink valve shims.

Bolt it back together sans starter shoes. I am starting to take note that with no shoes all the torque will now be transfered through the skinny locking ring posts. I wonder if the ring will want to flex or distort with no shoes in there to back it up so to speak..

Slap the shit back on and figure out how to start it now.

If I try to start it by wrapping something on the flywheel I will definatly have to run with no top covers as they are in the way.

I tried using this dress belt but after about ten pulls I bloodied my lip and threw it out in the street.

I think If I had a leather strap 1/2 inch wide and 5 feet long This would work with one pull

Till then, Fuck all the dumb shit.

Got it running of course and yes yes yes. No bog or interference just a high rev, followed by a steady clutch slip for about 50 feet or so till the variator met the crank at 1:1

So instead of the variator bringing the crank speed down to it. The crank speed made the variator come up to meet it.

I see and feel more tuning opps that have opened up.

Funny thing though, as I was doing my last turnaround while test riding, I see something rolling out on the ground. It was my flywheel nut.

It must have broken loose when the drill kicked back when starting.

Stupidly I killed the bike and bent down to pick up the nut, then it dawned that I cant start the bike now. FUCK ME!!

I resign to start pushing the bike 1/2 mile home when I remember someone said you can kick the flywheel and start a bike.

A couple of practice kicks later and IT WORKED, HOORAY.

I rode back home and killed the bike, then tried the kicking again and now its easy.

I must consider that the bike is warm and this might not be so easy when cold. Although I could take the belt off for less resistance.

I will let the bike cool way down and let you guys know.

cheetahchrome . Wrote:

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That's what bothers me in "no starter pads" setup. That and the fact the clutch will disengage once below 3-4 Krpm, so no more easy rolling through traffic.

Ha Ha I put it back on as soon as I picked it up but then didn't have a way to tighten it so I pocketed it

Hey! I'm the guy that laps all of his tapers. My shit don't move. But it did cross my mind when I was kicking it.

By the way I failed at cold starting the bike with kicks and had to do the drill.

I took the bike out and pounded the shit out of it and tried a couple different ball/star combos and settled on 3 balls two stars. But now I have the reoccuring bind up at stops.

I need to go with a thinner adjusting washer to cure this.

Aaron if you mean poor mans as in two bolts hanging out of the flywheel holes to wrap a rope in a figure 8. Too dangerous.

Can you put me onto a link for a real pullstart? That would be great.

I do have a real Peugeot kickstart crank from a SPX but I'm clueless as to what I would need to finnish it out.

Best part about it no more coming to a stop it acts like its shift .. waaaaa then disengagement happens.. Just smoothness. honda derbi pugs.. never mess with a moby nor a came to.. that one also. Speed limiters is what they are.. 30mph flat level ground.

The only thing I miss about my stater clutches is engine braking from constant engagement while in motion. However that is offset by the worry that my bike is running at very high rpm while I come to a stop with little to no fuel flowing. That caused a constant and subconscious throttle blip that I still do even when moderately hard braking.

mark, i went with a gas strut and the hell with the springs. really able to make it rev out hard. i thought about having some springs made and they did come in couple different lengths.

A pullstart that could still keep the pedals and I would ditch my starter clutch too.

Cheetah, please help fix this horid problem. I have worked on this for a while to no avail! The best I have gotten is three star springs and it got better. Then it would stick again. Just takes longer to stick. It has to be the heat of the clutch disc transferring into the springs and losing tension? The added slippage would make more heat. If this is the case we need to concentrate on cooling the clutch. Holes in the bell and it would be lighter? I know they sell lightened ones on treats. Hmm...