Time to bring up timing again.

Brad William /

How damn funny. I revisited this and completely forgot that I'd started a thread four years ago on it.

https://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/read.php?7,1962685,page=1

The reason why I went searching again is that I got to thinking about the video that is linked in the wiki. Seems to be a lot of agreement on the idea of setting the stator at some arbitrary point (usually full advance) and fiddling with the timing via the points gap.

Think this through a sec. Yes the points gap affects timing.. per se. But that is secondary a (and unintentional) result of setting that gap. The gap is primarily intended to set your "dwell"; not the dwell time that points remain open, but closed, and how that effects the length of time that current can charge the coil before the points break again and deliver the discharge to the plug.

The lobe on your flywheel is intended from the factory to provide precisely the dwell that results from the points gap. Yes, dwell can be adjusted for performance tuning your bike, but it is a separate setting (resulting from the gap) that should be determined for your application (pipe, kit, plug, etc) and then not changed. Only THEN can you set the timing via rotating the stator plate.

Again, think it through. Changing the gap will affect dwell and timing.... rotating the stator plate changes the timing but does not change the dwell. Which is good. You don't want to change the gap/dwell when timing the motor. Find what's best gap for your bike and keep it there. And then set the timing ONLY with the stator plate.

Or is it me that's confused? (edited)

Re: Time to bring up timing again.

no, I agree, set points to spec. first, then time with stator or flywheel

Re: Time to bring up timing again.

Probably Fred /

Set points first then time with a timing light

Re: Time to bring up timing again.

It is odd to see so many Puch people living by the "set the stator plate to full advance" idea (perhaps just in the past). I feel like this is too advanced most of the time and secondly I don't have faith that this will be consistent from ped to ped. Why trust 30 year old manufacturing tolerances over what is in front of you?

Re: Time to bring up timing again.

Luke “Funkenet” Hosfield /

Who just puts it at full advance? That dumb.

Re: Time to bring up timing again.

TONS of old puch timing posts just recommend that.

I think the repair forum has been Roffmanized lately which from the basic repair standpoint is probably best. It never hurt to be too conservative when fixing and then move to more aggressive when tuning. I think full retard is probably a lot closer to what you want to start at. Moving more advanced is way more logical than starting too advanced.

Re: Time to bring up timing again.

Probably Fred /

They are soo wrong^^ I get emails from these full advance stator people wondering why they seized their kits.

Even full retard is too advanced if you run a 17-18 thousand point gap which makes the best kv and dwell.

To get 16-17 degrees on the flywheel (which most new kits need to be at so they don't get over 400 degrees and seize) you gots to dremel the slots unless you run like a 12 thousand point gap .

I just did 2 bikes last week, one e50 and one za50 at full retard they were almost 22 degrees/mm on the flywheel with a 18 thou gap . Before I found correct top dead center with a long plug method and timed with a light both were waaay out of time. Neighbor kid set top dead center with a pencil and used cellophane for to see when points were open. He couldn't go around the Block without hitting 415 head temp on his treat kit 15 mm bing even though it ran great. Now it maintains 370 degrees head tempature @ WOT

The za50 seems to need more widening of the slots then a e 50.

Stock puch timing is ok for stock cylinders but for a kit it's too advanced

Re: Time to bring up timing again.

Just to make something definite in my mind, to retard timing the stator is turned clockwise. To advance it it is turned counterclockwise.

Right?

Re: Time to bring up timing again.

It depends on flywheel rotation.

Re: Time to bring up timing again.

e50 with a clockwise rotating flywheel.

Re: Time to bring up timing again.

Luke “Funkenet” Hosfield /

I got a timing light if ya need one Nick.

Re: Time to bring up timing again.

I've got one, too. I need all sorts of help with my e50 these days, but at least I'm making good progress with my Sebring and Traveler.

Re: Time to bring up timing again.

Everyone agrees you should set gap first then set timing via an electrical tester and ignition micrometer or timing light.

Setting your timing ”back to stock”, full advance, or full retard is asking for a blown piston or poor performance on a kitted motor.

Re: Time to bring up timing again.

Rotating the backing plate in the direction of flywheel rotation retards

Re: Time to bring up timing again.

Brad William /

I brought it up to disabuse anyone still unclear..... that changing the timing via the points gap is not a good idea. It's as simple as

1... points gap changes dwell and timing

2.... stator adjustment changes timing but not dwell.

That's why you need to do them in order of gap first and then stator adjustment.

Too many people don't understand that distinction and just consider the gap an alternative means of adjusting timing. You kind of have to get the mechanics of it visualized before any of the various advice here on the board can really sink in. Then the light goes off "oh, I get it now". (edited)

Re: Time to bring up timing again.

Thanks for clarifiying, Steve.

Re: Time to bring up timing again.

A lot of people confuse indexing the points (set gap at widest open) and setting the spark initiation (place where the points separate).

Had a numper swear that they set the timing perfect and still no spark and when I physically checked they had the points gap adjusted at initiation so they never closed.

Advancing the timing is good for 4 strokes and in some cases slightly advanced for very high turning 2 strokes, but usually you would want to put the heat into your pipe and not keep it in your engine so a timing a bit retarded will take most of the charge from the expansion of the air fuel but not all of the heat. Advancing the timing will give you more of the charge but heat soak the piston crown and rings. Pistons tend to get a bit melty at that point and the rings boil off the oil on the cylinder walls and seize.

Getting the heat into the pipe and expansion chamber will give you a faster moving reversion wave which will broaden the range of the pipe, it will also heat the pipe up to temperature sooner which will allow you to have more consistent performance.

« Go to Topics — end of thread

Want to post in this forum? We'd love to have you join the discussion, but first:

Login or Create Account