Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

The flasher relay will be inline leading to the bulbs. One hot lead that splits AFTER the relay through the flasher switch. The idea is that the current flows through the relay.

You can tell if the coil is grounded by checking continuity between the output lead and the stator plate. If it only has one lead, it must be grounded or it will put out no power because there will be no way to complete a circuit. If there are two outputs then either they are the "ends" of the stator winding, which neither will have continuity to ground, or one is a center tap and they will both have continuity to each other, but also ground. Using the center tap will be a waste in a rectified setup as it will take away from the longer winding lead. Some stators (like the hobbit 77 stator) have a center tap "sort of" that has a very short amount of winding all to itself inside the main winding. The effect is similar but accomplished differently. This gives the illusion that it is a true tap and also that the main winding is larger than it really is. I found this when I hand wound mine and was disappointed by the thought that I had for the longest time leaving one of the outputs floating in the wind assuming it had no use.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Here's a picture per magnus' request!

I actually didn't have a coil to take pictures of in my apartment, but this should definitely be more clear. Let me know if you have any questions magnus.

@Marc - yes. You should be able to squeeze a bit more power out of an HPI light coil with a floating ground and full wave rectification. I think the mini rotor coils might be incased though, so you might have a time trying to free up that other end.

Your hookup sounds good though and you should have 55w to play with which should be enough right? Not sure if your flasher portion of your post is a question, or just throwing part of your wiring out there to be analyzed.

As long as it's still running off the battery, there should be no change switching from full to half wave rectification. I wouldn't bother with it though if you have the mini rotor -unless you are indeed having issues getting adequate power.

Inner rotor is very easy to float the ground on as the grounding of the coil is very accesible - mini rotor not so much (I think, based on the pictures I've seen).

Do you have the mini or inner rotor? (edited)

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Ok DPC , so if there is one output as I suspect do you agree with my wiring plan?

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Everything is inside the tiny flywheel. So it's a mini rotor right? When you say I shouldn't bother with it...bother with what? The battery and the rectifier or everything .. Because it is already half wave rectified seeing there is only one wire? Shouldn't I do a volt reg to avoid cooking all that led stuff?

My idea is that of the 12 v led stuff I bought some says 12 v dc ,some says 12 v ac or dc . I worry that this stuff wasnt designed for any fluctuations. I got a,22 watt multi Cree emitter from autolumination.com(I think) and did a similar fusion with goop to the headlight. Plus led s to match all the little stock hobbit places.. Even the speedo..obsessive to the max.. I know but it's kinda pretty at night. Maybe I will ring it with yellow lights for night riding like an 18'wheeler.. I do have 55 watts.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

I was under the impression what you had written on the other page was what you already had and were only considering switching it to full wave rectification - that sounds fine either half or full if you have the mini rotor. If it's your plan - it sounds fine too.

If you have this ignition (mini rotor), you'll probably be fine with half-wave. Nobody seems to be having issues with them and I'm not entirely sure there's an easy way to unground the light coil.

If you have this ignition (inner rotor) - you might give full wave a shot. Half wave is barely enough to run LED's and certainly not halogens - I haven't had much luck with mine either and I haven't tried half wave yet.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

I have the upper picture and will be finishing the engine hopefully this week and mounting the hpi. I have the battery, silicon rectifier and two wire trail tech. I am planning on what I first said but wanted to check with you guys if it makes sense .

From what I sort of am understanding is that with only one hot wire the output is by definition half wave rectification and is therefore so close to dc in its characteristics that one can dispense with the silicon rectifier and just use a volt reg with perhaps an energy sink that could simply be a capacitor and not a battery. Is this true?

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Yes Marc. The way you had laid out is one way that people get away with a full wave rectifier without floating the ground. The downside (on a bike that has a frame ground originally) is that everything on the bike must be floated and rerouted back to the negative of the rectifier or in your case the battery. The power lead must also be "floated" back to the battery.

The frame must ONLY be used by the other side of the rectifier and one side of the coil (the grounded end). This in fact WILL give you full wave rectification. It will not be the cleanest power due to the frame being used as a conductive path but the AC pulse will oscillate back and forth properly.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Not that it fits this application but here are the photos I have from my rewind with floating ground. I used two counter-wound coils but the result is the same. Mostly just tooting my horn :P

And yeah. I underwound one of the coils. If I get bored I'll redo the whole thing.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

#CrazyWayne™ rocks. #CrazyWayne /

FyI you can tap hafe of the wave output from the CDI's stater winding, Just use a resister and or a wall-wort/stepper winding in line before the rectifier so you don't somk/fry the CDI winding just get the volts down.

Good for 10 to 30+ watts. http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_9/2.html

just make it a 2 1/2-phase rectifier.

V1's have a 12vt stater output winding feeding the coil so i run a 35 watt headlight inline insted of the brake light resister, and use the 6vt lighting winding for rear & brake lights.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Dpc thank you for your clarity. Very much appreciated.

Crazy Wayne : I think I need to go get a phd in electrical engineering to start understanding the wall wart stuff but I promise to try later this week I think the wall wart has surfaced multiple times of late: now it's probably not a mythical creature such as a unicorn but I have been scouring the museums of England and Britain looking for an accurate artistic representation of this creature. I almost found it in a "coffee shop" on kaiserstradt in Amsterdam. I premise to go there again soon and continue my search. It's just that the smoke obscures most of his outlines

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Wallwart is just a transformer... It's all inductors and magnetic fields. Go read up about how a transformer works and you'll understand!

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Neil Burgess /

Not to jack a thread- but you guys have done this soooooo.........

In all your diagrams, the C70 and/or puch lighting coils it's one coil. In one end out the other. But I'm doing this to my hobbit- want to go rectified DC with a small battery. Problem is with the hobbits 2 coils and different grounds, I'm at a loss following the ins and outs hehe.

I'm not gonna lie- An electrician I am not. Wired houses, wired cars. AC and DC I get standalone- It's the mixing of the 2 that has me a couple questions.

I have some stuff here- 2 different Hobbit CDI Stators- A Chinese 4 wire rectifier- A 77/Treats heavy duty voltage regulator(2 wire), a whole mess of incandescent and led bulbs, and a Powercap Battery which is really just 2 rows of caps and an overvolt led. Never have gotten a thing to power off that cap battery- but maybe we can use it here. Pic:

I have wasted so much time trying to figure this out on my own, I went ahead and pulled both stators apart to clearly see the windings, connections, and coils. This should be helpful to me and maybe others later if you guys have suggestions or comment on the pics.

Let's start with my first CDI, otherwise known as the cheapie 77. This confused me because it's 2 coils both with separate grounds, and a ground wire. I took the tang off one coil and soldered a small wire onto it for testing purposes, but wondered if I wanted that one floated to the rectifier, the other one, or both? On this one the primary lighting is red, low power is brown, green ground:

Then I bought another cdi stator from 77, it seems like very poor quality, so I'm calling it the super Chinese 77, but it's 2 coils are wired differently there's only a ground tang on one of the coils- and all 3 wires on it are on the ungrounded coil? Again the 2 coils are connected together like the other, but this one has a grey primary wire, red is the low power, and green ground wire:

Of the 2 which would you use? Which wires would you connect to what on each of them? And given the choice I think I'd rather use the cheapie unless the super Chinese would be an advantage from a wiring standpoint. I'll say this- the superchinese barely put out 9vac on the grey, like 2.5-3vac on the red(both unregulated when tested)- but my good old cheapie puts out 30vac on the red if unregulated. Somehow the superchinese seems like it would have to have a rectifier to ever work- but I'm probably wrong as I usually am! (edited)

IMG_20130625_204832_750.jpg
IMG_20130625_155804_946.jpg
IMG_20130625_214023_831.jpg

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Neil Burgess /

I appreciate any and all guidance here- so while I wait so can the hobbit. I'll work on the Kinetic tonight. Please help me fix the hobbit so I don't have to ride the Kinetic(which by the way has beautiful lights and blinkers lol)

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

The pictures I posted are on a 77 hobbit cdi. Where you are getting confused is that to harness the output of both coils in DC they need to be counter wound to each other, one clockwise and the other ccw. They also need to be one strand of wire wound to both of them. Then both ends are floated to the reg/rec. The way it comes out of the box they are two separate coils, each sharing the common ground of the stator plate. There is no ground wire. That is a small winding inside one coil and it does put out a small amount of power but it's basically useless.

Temporarily I did manage to rig the two coils with two rectifiers and powered my lights in parallel. I didn't get 100% output but it did work. I had to float the ground of each coil and connected the rectified output of each together. I only ran this way for a few weeks and then rewound the whole thing.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Neil Burgess /

So you took out the 2 coils and put in one big one? That's what got me-

When you rewound the whole thing was that like rewinding both coils together to work, or just one of the two, or what?

Is that other coil pictured here(the one with the extra wire) the only available or which would be best?

This does explain why I couldn't get chit outta the rectifier- glad I posted!

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Neil Burgess /

One other possibility I just thought of- what if I use the extra CDI power coil I have here, ungrounded and both wires to the rectifier? Too much power? would have like 100vac to power with? I ask because you could fit 2 in there easily......

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Neil Burgess /

Or another possible- a combination using 2 of the 4 lighting coils I have? I dunno what would work. Or should I just break down and buy that treats puch coil? Does it attach to existing holes?

Nice weather coming up and I really would like to ride in some of it! And to me this is all totally worth it- tired of piss poor lighting!

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

I removed both coils, which were separate. I unwound them and rewound using a single continuous strand of wire on to both coils. One wound clockwise and the other counter (extremely important). So two coils wound as one.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Also CDI coils produce FAR too much voltage and FAR too little amperage to run anything. They can throw a spark, but couldn't power a large LED array. They would also put out close to 100v, and that is useless. Just rewind two of your coils. It took me about 3 hours and some sore fingers to finish the winding.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Neil Burgess /

How about this:

treats pietcard 35watt lighting coil

put here:

float the ground and run your white wire and rectify? am I understanding what needs to happen?

I'm willing to buy and try (edited)

IMG_20130625_155938_095.jpg

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Well again I would say why rig some crap that, if it works as advertised, will get you 35w... I am powering over 50w of lighting and if not regulated will blow that easily. Magnet wire is cheap and your brain is as valuable as you make it. I got a spool of wire for 8.50, a 150cc scooter rectifier (not the 50cc, those are half wave) for 9 dollars shipped and made the bike do what I wanted it to do.

The only thing you will find with the trail tech or a reg/rec like the one I have is that it needs a battery to charge or you get low voltage. Unregulated I can power 2 25w bulbs and 3.5w of LED to about 18v before I back off. With the reg/rec and no battery I never get higher than 7.5v~

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Neil Burgess /

I think I can manage a rewind- I just have one other question. You said one clockwise and one counter on winding. I can do that. Does it matter which ends connect the 2 coils together when doing it with one strand? Meaning the start wind hanging out of the end of the coil(lets call that - as it's a ground on at least one of my coils) vs the end wind on the outermost wind where the wire ends( + )? Looks like my existing coils are +-+-, like 2 6 volt coils combined. Would it still work like +--+? Or no matter as long as they're counterwound directionally?

Sorry I'm so clueless on the magnetism stuff but by the time I get this lol it'll all be here for the world to enjoy. I did look to see what I could find before asking- but really there's precious little info out there on lighting coils. Some stuff on single coils but I could not find anything at all on how to configure 2 coils together.

Thanks Ryan for trying to help!(Cheetah Marc and all else who's posted here too!)

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Try to imagine the electrical impulse as a wave. A wave that is flowing in the direction of rotation of the flywheel magnets. The strand needs to begin at one end of the first coil in the rotation and end up at the far end of the last coil in the line regardless of how many coils you have. Now the thing you have a little off is that this is alternating current and flows in both directions, so there is no positive or negative. However, the power will only flow from one end to the other, it will not flow inward to the middle or start in the middle and flow outward. That is why two identically wound coils will cancel each other out.

Start at the left side of one coil and go to the right, then without cutting the wire leave enough slack to space the coils on the stator plate. Then, continue winding the second coil from left to right BUT IN THE OPPOSOTE ROTATION (if you wound one toward you, wind the other away from you) continue until you fill the coils. Remember that you don't want so much that the magnets hit and also so that you can mount the coil to the stator plate. I had to grind a bit of mine because the coil was so fat that it grounded out when I screwed it down tight.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Love that this thread keeps getting bumped...

My fluids class is about to start, but I thought I'd just throw in there (kinda, but not really) off topic at this point...

The electrical system from the drawing in this thread is working great. Bright lights, haven't blown any bulbs and everything is good. Halogen is super bright still too.

Up near redline on the honda motor, I'll get some pulsation, but I think I'm just making stupid power at that point... Haven't tapped it to see what kinds of voltage I've got going into the regulator/rectifier with that high wrap treats coil.

Gonna try and wire my iphone 5 in before louisville to ride up there no chase, but that may not happen (the iphone being wired in anyway).

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Neil Burgess /

Well, my trip to radioshack got me 2 3packs of wire. Its the only way my store here sells it. I'm opting for the 22ga roll out of the 3 packs, but each one is only enough for one coil. I will have to solder my connection between the 2 coils. I Think that's fine considering both my stators were already like that. Woulda preferred one strand but working with what I've got.

I got one wrapped up- looks really good. By my guestimation there's about 31ft of wire off the 40ft roll. Worked out to 5 nice tight wraps. One more to wrap up(winding the opposite direction) and give a try.

This pic was around about the 3rd wrap on this first coil.

(edited)

IMG_20130628_150709_367.jpg

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

I used 18ga for the current output but if info it again may go thinner for higher voltage at idle. That wire looks quite thin but should get the job done.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Neil Burgess /

I'm posting this experiment as a moderate success. I did make power, just not enough. The 22ga wire was the thickest of my 3 options. I'm pretty sure it's got great amps and watts- but it's less than 12v even at a rev. This wire is very close to the super chinese coils I started with, and getting same result as the super chinese put out, about 7-8v(whether ac under load, or dc with a battery). Would probably work well with 6v bulbs, but I want/need 12v.

My old 77 cheapie would put out 30vac(low watts tho), and has a much thinner guage wirethan I used (which as I understand coils the thinner the wire the higher the volts). So I think I will re-wrap them again using the middle guage from my 3packs.

There must be a happy medium where there are the right amount of volts vs decent watts output. I'll let you guys know once I get it going again.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Mine produced 30+v with no load in AC.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Neil Burgess /

Well it's either my wire size or number of wraps. I can't get more wraps on there with this wire- just no room. I think going down one wire size(at least of my 3 choices) will gain me more wraps and thinner wire will up the volts.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Don't buy wire from radioshack... Ebay has all the wire you'll ever need... I wrapped a 300v ignition exciter coil with ebay stuff... plus they have fun enamel colors.

Radioshack magnet wire is good for school projects, but the three pack thing just doesn't cut it when you're winding coils for bikes.

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