Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

WTF am I missing?

I know this regulator needs a floating ground - and the 12v light coil I ordered has a floating ground... or so I thought... Did I fry the regulator?

I didn't have the blue wire hooked up because I have no battery... Anyone have any experience with this regulator?

I'm getting 12VAC from my coils, and 2.5VDC from the regulator... grrrrrrr

Halogen 27w bulb up front and LED in rear. Voltage stays unchanged whether 27w halogen is hooked up or not...

TRAILTECH YU NO WORK? (edited)

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

I read in another thread that it pulses DC, so I'll go pick up a capacitor tomorrow. Hopefully that fixes it...

I really don't want to put a battery on this bike

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

I have experienced voltage regulators that require a battery to function to full voltage. Most gy6 Chinese scoot reg/rect are like that. No battery and you get 6-7vdc, and you fry the regulator eventually. With batt, 14vdc and everything works great.

You don't need much of a battery for them to work if that's the case here.

Small drill battery? That's what I use on projects that req batteries.

Dewalts work really well, got a bunch at a garage sale awhile back. (edited)

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

I'm interested to see how this turns out as I was just about to order this same combo!

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Ok... Here's the report.

Got two 4700 micro-farrad caps. Wired them into the system per Trailtech instruction sheet recommended for a battery.

The caps are charging, but my lights still suck. Here may lie the problem... I'm not using a puch or moped flywheel. This is on a C70 build I'd doing right now and I'd eventually like to use this on a ped. I had to mod the coil center to fit under the flywheel. I'm not sure if that would change the magnetic/generating characteristics of the coil.

I'm gettting about 6-7VAC off the coil at idle and at mid range revs I'm getting 10-11VAC. However, I'm not seeing more than 11VDC from the regulator.

I've tried both the ways the instruction sheet shows, one for under 4Ah setups and one for over, but it's a no-go. I also picked up a rectifier from radioshack, and I'm so tired of fooling with this I might just put that on there and forget the combo pack.

Someone on here HAS to have used this before and gotten it to work. My caps are charging and the electrical is all new. All wires tested for continuity.

Below are pics of the modded and stock coils as well as the trailtech wiring diagrams (both of which I've tried).

Modded

Stock

Greater than 4Ah

Less than 4Ah

(edited)

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Also, side note. I always thought caps were caps. BUT the guy in the other thread who got these to work used a single 16v 3300mFarrad cap... these are 35v 4700mFarrad caps. On the package at the store it just said 35WVDC so I thought it was rated for 35w under DC current, when I get home and look at the specs online for the cap, it says 35v...

Is THIS my problem? Just thought I'd throw that out there. These are all I could lay my hands on tonight, so I'll be sure to get some 12v if this doesn't resolve itself/I give up on this damned $45 regulator.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Just try a 12v battery and see what happens.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

I'm not buying a 12v battery... I'd have to run it for a while to see if it was actually charging or not... I refuse to put a battery on a moped. A cap is a battery... just slightly different.

I'm thinking about giving up and putting this on my S90 which is in need of a regulator rectifier anyway and has a battery. This may just not be a viable option for peds.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Just wanted to see what it would do....as an experiment. No big deal if you don't wanna run one.

My question is what kind of voltage does the 12v coil put out without the regulator at max rpms? Perhaps you just need a rectifier. That tt wants high voltage at the input, like 20-40v straight off the stator unloaded. if you're just giving it 12v, it can't do it's job and there is some voltage drop. (edited)

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

most likely your just drawing more current then what the stator can provide. By drawing to much you are effectively shorting the coils and causing the power output (Voltage and Current) to fall to almost zero. Start by first looking at what the stock lighting coil can provide current wise, then figure out what the total load in watts all of the draw is on the ignition. If that number is more then what the coil can provide it's won't work.

good luck

-naz

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Hey, no worries jbot, didn't mean for that to come off angry or snotty. Just got really frustrated with this coil last night. I think you are right about the 30-40v thing... Can't really regulate if you're not over the output voltage haha

Michael, good idea. I'll grab an incandescent today and see if that does it. Someone quoted me 50w on this coil, but it's not listed anywhere I can find. I'm going to reduce the load and drop one of the caps - will post back with results.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

No prob, I did think you were a bit angry, and I understand the "not wanting a batt" on ones moped, or C70. It's easy to get pissed when you don't know the answer to why your shits broke.

But yes, if that coil is made for 12v, I bet you just hook up a small cap and bridge rectifier and you'll be fine. I had to run a VR on the hobbit for the led taillights. It was getting huge voltage and would have burned those LEDs up. I tried a cap to substitute for a batt as well, didn't work. The battery was required as I was using the gy6 reg.

Just a quick note, most modern 2t scoot reg/rect with the horizontal minarelli do not require batteries to work proper, but you need 20v plus at the stator.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Any progress?

I just rewound one of my lighting coils and I'm about to test it with a battery and a 4-pin GY6 style voltage regulator rectifier. Although if that doenst work out then I'm heading this route if you can find a way to make it work correctly.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

I used this one with the 12v lighting coil and a small battery. Worked perfectly. See the comments for the how-to.

https://www.treatland.tv/4-prong-voltage-regulator-p/voltage-regulator-4-prong.htm

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

umm, I have the same RR and that is not how I have seen to wire those up. Not saying it's incorrect, just great to know!!!

I wired mine up like this:

http://www.veloliner.com/elite50e/629513342_cQbBr-L.jpg

Which did not work out correctly for my NC50. I will try your wiring tonight and see if it works out.

Were you going to the battery and then running the lighting system off of the battery?

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Yep. DC positive and negative went to a 12v battery and we ran all the lighting off that.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

The battery is supposed to go inline with the DC supply off the regulator... and no. I did not use a battery. I used two 4700mFarrad caps.

@Jake P - were you using the 12v coil from the treats CDI, the aftermarket one for $13 or some other coil? What size and type battery?

@JBOT, you have won my man. I bought an itty bitty

12v 1.3Ah sealed lead acid battery

today from my local batteries plus.

@ aja - that's the wiring diagram that came in the box with the regulator... I hope it's right! I think you may be confusing this regulator/rectifier with the two wire A/C regulator... this has 5 wires and is a regulator/rectifier.

After reading through the old CT70 manual last night, looking at how they had the 6v system setup, I think that this is going to be better. One thing it mentioned is that sufficient charging current (on the 6v system for a 2Ah 6v battery and max 28w lighting draw) wasn't generated until 2000 rpm or something so I'm not too worried now about not having higher voltage at low RPM since it didn't stock either. Also, it was a half wave rectifying selenium diode... not a full wave bridge rectifier like is in the TT regulator.

The good thing about the full wave bridge rectifier is you get twice as many DC pulses (and that much more stability and current) for the same system running a non-bridged half wave rectifier diode - because you're rectifying both A/C pulses not just one.

I have a feeling this is going to work with the battery... It's a smaller capacity battery with higher wattage lights and a full wave rectifier... worst case is I drop down the lighting wattage or re-wind one of the original coils with more winds and finer wire (porbably would work better too). I still have a feeling modding those centers is causing some issue.

Unfortunately, yesterday after setting the bike to stock gearing, it was sluggish. Leak down test confirmed 40% leakage past rings at 10psi and no valve leakage. So I have to wait for rings to get here now... Should be before the end of the week. Ordered them through DRAtv USPS - should be a verdict by the weekend!

Just want to get done with this thing so I can resume work on the disk brakes on my mk65 za maxi sport mkii! (edited)

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Deadped Ryan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> @Jake P - were you using the 12v coil from the

> treats CDI, the aftermarket one for $13 or some

> other coil? What size and type battery?

It was on this bike . Was a small gel cell 12v (fit under the seat) and it had the treats 12v CDI/lighting coil.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Cool, well this is AGM... same song different key...

What kinda wattage did you pull on that setup?

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Oh no! You turned to the dark side!

Now it's almost a "scooter" hahahaha!

J/k. Batteries and regulators just love each other...

I was in waist deep today in getting a regulator to work with my fan, battery, and 2stator lines. Got it going finally, but I had to get creative...

I bet it will work great with the battery

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

I bet you're right jbot... I just HATE having batteries haha... I'm totally going to be scheming the whole time I'm riding on how to get rid of them.... while I enjoy my super bright lights and awesomeness... lol

Stupid DC current

Thanks for the prod - hopefully it saves my stubborn ass a lot of headache (fingers crossed) (edited)

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Ryan, I was talking about Jakes wiring diagram for his 4-pin RR.

Ive seen the 5 wire style that you have and that is what I'm really interested in since it's using the center tap from the lighting coil.

Let use know how it works out once you get the rest of the motor figured out. Once you get a working system, those are the first two items I'm ordering!

I know how you feel about batteries, I have a Yamaha RD125 and a RD400 that I would love to get rid of the batteries on. Very annoying!

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Wait a second....

I just look over the pictures. You put the ground on the motor? when it needs to be a floating ground? That might be your issue right there.

Trailtech states it needs to be a floating ground.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

The black wires are leads from the ignition coil (in the picture). The 40 year old lead wires on the coil started to deteriorate so I replaced them with the only thing I had at the time - black! Nothing DC has a negative side grounded to the frame. It's all tied to the negative terminal on the regulator.

All the A/C stuff on the bike (that isn't connected to the regulator) is tied to frame ground. Anything supplied with DC positive is tied back to DC negative on the regulator.

The "floating ground" for the 12v coil is the electrical washer thing coming from the coil that the stator screws go through. (edited)

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

#CrazyWayne™ rocks. #CrazyWayne /

Wrong look at the lighting winding see the ground tang on the right.

That lighting coil has two windings on it the yellow is hi power 40 to 50 watt 12vt, the green is low power 15 to 20 watt for your rear light.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

That ground needs to be floated...

The two wires are high and low BUT if you remove the low and don't use it then it just acts as one big coil. The low power lead is just a center tap. Luckily the trail tech uses both of them! The above is just to note if you have a single lead voltage regulator/rectifier.

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

#CrazyWayne™ rocks. #CrazyWayne /

So you need to remove the frame grounding tang and solder/put a wire on the winding.

Then put two connectors on the new wire at the regulator one goes to the AC side of the regulator.

The other to your AC low power lights using the green lead.

Do not to ground the low power AC lead coming from the new wire to the regulator.

If you need to frame ground for the low power AC side of the treats winding ground the green lead to the frame.

@ AJA wrong the ground tang is the center tap for the two windings. (edited)

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

Correct, I was wrong about the center tap. On the Honda NC50s they have a center tap in the middle of the windings and one single ground. Looking at the treatland 12V windings, it shows clearly in the photo that both the high and the low are going to the ground in two different windings.

But the trailtech uses both high and low leads into the voltage regulator. So you would float the ground and hook both high and low to the regulator along with the floated ground.

haha am I correct on that one?

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

#CrazyWayne™ rocks. #CrazyWayne /

>But the trailtech uses both high and low leads into the voltage regulator.

>So you would float the ground and hook both high and low to the regulator along with the floated ground.

No it depends on how you set things up and the rectifier regulator used etc.

The green lead/low power has less wraps than the yellow highpower to use both you need a 6 way rectifier before the regulator or they will fight each other.

Or you will loose power/ fry something/it wont work.

Do some reading. http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/ (edited)

Re: Trail Tech Regulator Rectifier + 12v light coil = FAIL

The 4-pin only works with a single lead and the trailtech works with both leads?

What is a 6-way rectifier?

haha you have me confused.

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