Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Mars /

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May 27, 2012 07:21PM

So after a little research, and realization of what should have been obvious, I have come to the conclusion that everyone is using the wrong belt with this variator.

The Variotop is reputed for having a wider range of movement. It does this by using a steeper pulley cheek angle. Pretty much all V-belts are 40 degrees; that being, the angle between the two sides is 40. The angle between the cheeks of the Variotop is 30 degrees.

Now both 77 and Treats sell a BX belt (BX32 for Peugeot for example) for use with the variator, but the BX32 has the 40 degree sides which means that only the top of the belt will make contact with the pulley cheeks; this causes rapid wear and destruction of the belt.

The proper belt to use would be a 5VX315.

I'm curious why I haven't heard of more people having trouble with this.

Here's an example. Below is a BX belt firmly pressed against the cheek on the left side. A ten degree gap can clearly be seen.

(edited)

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Jake P /

jakep

May 27, 2012 07:24PM

How does the belt fit at idle and at full variation?

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Mars /

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mars OP

May 27, 2012 07:29PM

In what sense? With the BX belt? The BX belt seemingly works fine. It will go all the way in to the pulley at idle, and makes it all the way out on variation, but the problem as I said is that only the top edge of the belt makes contact with the pulley, thus destroying the belt quickly.

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Peter Fondue /

chancelampeau

May 27, 2012 07:41PM

perhaps the ELO98 round belt would work

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Mars /

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mars OP

May 27, 2012 07:42PM

Probably. I'm using a couple shoelaces for now.

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

#CrazyWayne™ rocks. #CrazyWayne /

crazywayne

May 27, 2012 08:34PM

Try a track belt.

Or this dishwasher water safe belt.

(edited)

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Jake P /

jakep

May 27, 2012 10:09PM

The 5V315 belt.

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Mars /

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mars OP

May 27, 2012 11:09PM

Oh crap, I just noticed that I made a type-o. It should read:

5VX315 (note the added X)

The 5V315 does not appear to be made.

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

#CrazyWayne™ rocks. #CrazyWayne /

crazywayne

May 27, 2012 11:25PM

So we want to use this belt, and its cheep.

Link to belt http://www.vbeltsupply.com/ecommerce/catalogsearch/result/?q=5VX315

http://www.vbeltsupply.com/ecommerce/catalogsearch/result/index/?q=5VX&limit=all

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

#CrazyWayne™ rocks. #CrazyWayne /

crazywayne

May 27, 2012 11:53PM

This 32" one is Kevlar.

http://www.vbeltsupply.com/ecommerce/kevlar-corded/5lk/5lk320.html

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Mars /

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mars OP

Jul 03, 2012 09:54AM

Update: So, that's a nope. It turns out the particular site that I found which listed the angle of the 5VX belt had a typo! It has a 38 degree angle, not 30. Sure it's slightly better, but it's not right.

This whole time I've been under the impression that it was just the Malsossi Variotop which used the 30 degree belts. I decided to order a Doppler ER3, thinking that it would solve my belt-eating problems. It is also 30 degrees!

Now, I can't help but wonder how others are getting away with using regular belts with these after market variators. Are people just not running as much tension or putting out as much power as my zany water cooled setup?

After doing a bit more research, it seems that industry standard "variable speed" belts (go figure, eh!?) are 30 degrees and will match our variators properly. The only problem is that they seem to come in limited sizes, and are considerably wider. The thinnest available Gates variable speed belt appears to be 3/4", while even the BX belts (which we consider to be wide are only 21/32; a difference of almost 2.5mm, which can make a big difference in the pulley in that you will have a tough time getting the belt to ride all the way in 'low gear'.

Furthermore, because of the wider inner width of the belt (because of the angle) and the already wider top, the belt itself would most likely not fit in to a typical clutch pulley channel!

So um, yep. (edited)

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Tracy Meade /

tracy

Jul 03, 2012 11:13AM

I've been saying this for years!

The best belt I have found is a malossi 619004.

It runs a little longer than I needed on mbk and is kinda expensive, but at least it works right and Is pretty tuff.

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Tracy Meade /

tracy

Jul 03, 2012 11:16AM

Also the twizzler belts that people were using for a while fit perfectly in a variotop (yet break down quickly)

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Mars /

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mars OP

Jul 03, 2012 11:21AM

Glad I'm not the only one!

I heard through the grapevine that ole BigBlockFiero actually had a jig he used to alter his snowmobile belts using a router. I've contacted him to see if he had some tips and tricks; waiting to hear back.

I'm also thinking of contacting Gates directly to see if they have other options with which I'm not already familiar.

Things are actually looking better for me since my custom setup uses a ~35" belt. It looks like one of the 3/4" belts which is available will actually be about right for me, but I will likely have to fabricate a custom pulley in which to install my clutch pulley guts.

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Mars /

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mars OP

Jul 03, 2012 11:22AM

Tracy Meade Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> (yet break down quickly)

I seem to be able to destroy an AX belt in about 10 miles... I bet I'd kill those things just as quickly :)

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Mars /

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mars OP

Jul 03, 2012 11:27AM

Oh wow: http://www.malossi.com/Archivio_Files%5CMONTAGGIO%5CDIM%20CINGHIE_001.pdf

Looks like I'll be using the same belt as a Kymco Yup 250 four-stroke on my MB103 :) (edited)

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Graham Motzing /

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grahammotzing

Jul 03, 2012 11:40AM

that is huge!

so are the stock continental or whatever they are called french belts a 30 degree angle? I dont think i have one that isn't all shot to hell... maybe... we would need a nos or low mileage bike to tell.

maybe they expect the variator to just grab the top of the belt and have less contact area=less rolling resistance.

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Mars /

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mars OP

Jul 03, 2012 01:31PM

Well, I emailed Benji about this to be all like, "hey, get this belt instead of the BX34 you're selling", and he was all like, "they've been discontinued! bummer!"

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

LSLB RXb /

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adamr

Jul 03, 2012 02:28PM

Someone call malossi!

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Graham Motzing /

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grahammotzing

Jul 03, 2012 02:57PM

sounds like we have a volunteer!

the belt trimming idea sounds interesting, mars you should make that jig. something with a shouldered pulley that the inside of the belt can ride on, and the non-cut side can run up against, and some kind of fixture for holding a dremel or saw at the right angle to the belt, maybe. tensioner on the other side and turn the belt by hand?

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Tracy Meade /

tracy

Jul 03, 2012 03:37PM

Perhaps everyone missed that I said that malossi had a pretty darn good match. It is easier to make work than making a jig to modify belts anyway.

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Mars /

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mars OP

Jul 03, 2012 04:17PM

Benji says they stopped making them... although it looks like there are some sites out there with a few in stock.

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Tracy Meade /

tracy

Jul 03, 2012 04:20PM

I ordered one 2 Months ago from spi parts. It costs like 28 bucks with shipping, but my last one lasted a few years.

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Mars /

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mars OP

Jul 03, 2012 04:37PM

Well, I think I'll order one now... we'll just have to wait to see how long they last :)

Oh BTW here's what Gates says:

Our v-belt plant is actually shut down this week so I did the research with one of our other Engineers rather than have you go through a distributor, then customer service, then the plant. It looks like our process only allows a 40° grind angle on BX belts. Making BX belts with a 30° angle would not be feasible unless a customer needed around 50,000 belts a year. We tried finding an automotive belt that is close to the dimensions you need, but there is nothing in our system showing that.

Sorry for the inconvenience. Let me know if there’s anything else we can do.

Regards,

Phil

PHILIP D. GRIX

Product Application Engineer

GATES CORPORATION

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

*.* HONDA /

kozanatos

Jul 03, 2012 05:59PM

Props to gates support. They took some time to help you.

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Mars /

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mars

Jul 03, 2012 06:10PM

Yeah, pretty cool. Real people answer the phone too.

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Graham Motzing /

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grahammotzing

Jul 03, 2012 10:08PM

yeah gates is a damn good company, great products and great people.

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

not a Baron Asshole /

dorimaster

Sep 17, 2014 03:13PM

BUMPING this thread b/c i have the correct malossi belt for this and it still has a gap when fully opened, meaning it could use a wider belt(and both other normal pug belts, same thing) they are ALL the correct angle cut.

JUST 2 questions...should i make a shim in the variator to not open all the way so it will vairate quicker?

On a PUG should i leave some play in the engine mount(had to chop the side for belt alignment) to frame so the engine can move side to side some helping ease the movement of the belt? i already have the clutch pulley against a spring to help it move as the variator forces it back and forth

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

brian schulz /

speedfot

Sep 17, 2014 03:27PM

Mars, what are you doing with a moby anyhow.

I have tried the variplus variator. I found a couple of things that are irritating.

1. the diameter is a bit larger than stock and ER3/2 variators. which in turn you have to check that the pulley and the variplus do not collide when at full variation. there are ways to avoid this but you need to check.

2. it seems these variators where out after a years worth of use. then the weights fly out like bullets.

after trying an ER3 I won't get another variplus. I would rather get a 4 ball guide and use only 2 balls... and treats just had these in stock but they sold in a week.

Re: Malossi Variotop: You're using the wrong belt

Adam Pereira /

backinblack

Aug 30, 2016 08:26PM

Been wrenching soooo much....no posty...best I've found for a 103....Gates 5VX350. It sits lower into the cheek than a BX...even though it's 3mm taller....because maybe the 2 degree difference on the taper of the belt.. I dunno...but it does. And...the teeth of the belt actually touch the hub! What? Yeah.

It's a stiffer belt.. more like a kevlar. Running this with a doppler clutch pulley.

Starting. ...well....if you have decompression it's 100% gonna hook up. For my no decompression malossi 70...still no problem...it will almost turn over just pushing....but what works for me it's to give it a push and get a foot to the lunch lever...boom.. yeah...you have one right? Game changer.

MOPED ARMY

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