why do points suck.....

so got the E_50 w a k-star,19mmcarb,estroil pipe.... my ped starts on the first kick runs great till i get to about 40 ish and then it starts to back fire, i have set and re set the timing, changed the points gap, but when i change the point gap and make it alittle bigger then stock setting i get no spark... but move it back that hair or so and sparky....so as i'm trying to tune the new carb the damn thing almost acts like a rev limiter, and backs fires and bogs out..... soooooooo CDI it is... input any one ?

Re: why do points suck.....

thats weird...

what is your timing at?

Re: why do points suck.....

Backfire then bog could be a fuel supply problem...gas cap vented...chinese points have been known to act like a rev limiter...good luck

Re: why do points suck.....

I had a bike that did that once.... turned out to be a bad plug... I actually rebuilt that engine because of that same damn plug....

Re: why do points suck.....

try a new spark plug too. What gap is the points & spark plug set at?

Re: why do points suck.....

I am willing to bet it is the chinese points.

Re: why do points suck.....

If the points were fine before you switched to the 19, I'm going to say they're still good. Highly coincedental that they would go bad at the exact same time you change your intake/carb setup. I would look into the variables you just changed.

Re: why do points suck.....

they were doing that before the carb.

Re: why do points suck.....

yes befor the carb and intake was put on it was doing this.... ohh well this is just a reason to tear the bike down and re-paint and what not while waiting to buy some new parts(cdi, clutch, and a couple cables)

Re: why do points suck.....

† CH∆D † /

Chinese points? Where do you get the goodies then? Are treats/77 chinese?

Re: why do points suck.....

points are amazing. just set them up right! learn to time and check them frequently. clean wiring and solid grounds...

nothing beats a set of healthy good condition stock points.

Re: why do points suck.....

If your point gap is too wide the points can bounce a bit just because they are making such big swings cause you are riding the cam lower to higher. If the point gap is really too wide the points won't close and of course no spark. .012 of an inch is pretty small and it works good as a gap

Re: why do points suck.....

In a rain storm your mostly going to be .. shut down..

cdi=ftw

Re: why do points suck.....

Between a correctly set/adjusted set of points and a "stock" type cdi you shouldn't notice a difference in performance.

Re: why do points suck.....

Re: why do points suck.....

Points are fine. As long as you have a good, clean set, not pitted, gapped properly (.016"), and your timing is set at 17 degrees before TDC (aka 1.2mm of piston travel).

I've broken a couple sets of aftermarket points (the cheap metal just snaps from the stress of "floating" and slamming shut). I replaced them with NOS Bosh points and never had the problem again (still floated, but no breaky). I should mention that my e50 spins at much higher rpms than it was designed to.

My bike was "floating" the points at high R's and cutting out a little, CDI fixed that problem. Now I get a few more revs, and no cutting out. In my opinion, CDI is not a performance upgrade. It is simply a modernization of the points/condenser system which allows for less maintenance, more reliability and more safety (bright lights).

Re: why do points suck.....

yep what he said ^^^^

cdi is an expensive cop-out if your installing it to solve issues with ur points (that might not even be the points at all), learn how ur bike works and how to fix points systems then go cdi if u desire.

In my experience points have performed just as well if not better sometimes then other ppl with cdi. Also if ur having probs with points they can be easily fixed, if ur having probs with cdi the bikes stops running and u got to buy a new one.

tuning with cdi can also be misleading since its such a strong spark often times u can power thru jetting that too rich w/o fouling plugs and infact be fooling urself into propper jetting and in turn get less performance.

IMO, cdi for optimizing a well tuned setup not for solving an inability to troubleshoot points

Re: why do points suck.....

alright guys i should of said i know what i am doing.... and i have the bike running w/ some NOS bosh points tonight, they are set perfect, and timing is adjusted , the ped runs great again but w/ the higher RPMS its acting up a little at the top,i guess its floating, thus the reason i want the CDI...

Re: why do points suck.....

What I describe as "floating" is a very slight hesitaton, never any backfiring or chugging. Hardly noticeable even. It always felt sort of like it wanted to go faster, but just couldn't. "Cutting out" as I said earlier may have been the wrong choice of words.

It would only happen when going way fast. I wouldn't think it would happen at 40mph unless you have some sort of very low gearing.

I would consider changing some jetting setups to see if it makes things better or worse first since it seems like your ignition system is dialed in.

Re: why do points suck.....

When I rode it that is exactly how it felt.

Re: why do points suck.....

ok let me try one more time(not to sound like a dick at all) ok it was the chines points, i put the NOS ones on and back to beauty but at the the top it is "floating as you described, not backfiring any more just kinda not getting the full power it should have, my carb is tuned nearly perefect.. waiting for 2 jets... a 40 pilot and an 88 main...i feel the 87 i have right now is just not perfect...

Re: why do points suck.....

and roughly at about 50 ish

Re: why do points suck.....

Have you tried making the gap a bit smaller than stock. With high rpm motors a smaller points gap will keep the points from floating until a higher rpm.

If you just installed brand new known good points and the problem persists then I'm leaning towards it being something else causing your issue. Since you just eliminated the points.

Not to say your gap or your timing is not wrong but don't blame it on the points.

Heck I still run a set of stock points in my 85cc Parma motor, probally could have a bit more power if I made the jump to a CDI. For the time being it's just fine without any float even at the rpms the motor is able to get to.

Re: why do points suck.....

First- is it timing backfiring or fouling backfiring? the loud bang or the soft bang?

If its the loud true backfiring id feel like its just yr condensor failing. Is it sparking at the points?

if its the soft backfire- maybe your just fouling out yr plug at speed. You might be confusing a "rev limiter" feeling as just 4-stroking and holding you back- and then its just fouling you at speed. Downjet, try a new plug and see if it persists.

Re: why do points suck.....

should i try a hotter or colder plug?

Re: why do points suck.....

hotter.

Re: why do points suck.....

Dude get your carb tuned better before you get a hotter plug.

Re: why do points suck.....

I rode the bike yesterday, The cutting out feels like a rich or lean bog, I didn't ride it enought to figure out! It issue is not in the electrical at the moment. It is Jetting!

Re: why do points suck.....

my friends bike is doing the same thing same kit on it

except for his was running fine hitting close to 50 until he hit a good size bump now its fucking up at around 40

changed the plug no difference

cleaned and set the points still does it

changed the timing both ways still does it

cleaned the whole fuel system still does it

it doesnt make any sense it sounds like preignition to me but theres nothing to pre ignite new head so no carbon build up B8HS plug so i dont think thats heating up too much

Re: why do points suck.....

dude let me use some jets then!!!!! and like i said before, its working good now till about 50 ish... then it acts like hesitation, like it wants to go faster but it just wont.. then jets i have in right now are 42 idle , stock pilot, 87 main.... needle is right in the middle, and its a stock needle...

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