So... Who's got port maps? I don't care what brand, stock, ported, aftermarket cylinders, I want to see them all.
This is the sort of stuff we should have in our database. :-) If you don't know how, I'll post links in a bit.
Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them?
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
here's one of a stock "fast" moby cylinder. the ones QK was selling recently. i believe it is a repro of the fastest stock av7 cylinder.
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
ps i used to have port maps for 3-5ish stock motobecane cylinders, but i found out i overwrote them all into one file... bummer. so if i can dig that one file up ill post it, but i actually think its in the wiki. i was gonna make a port map database for mobies, but since all my shit got overwritten that didnt really go very far...
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, then yes, it is in the wiki:
http://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Motobecane_port_database
If anyone else has some they want to put in the wiki -- Moby or otherwise -- do it already!
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
Well, yes, that's what i'm looking for. But hopefully for more than just motobecanes. Peugeots, sachs, puch, tomos... Come on people :-) I know some of you have cylinders laying around. Even a blown up cylinder will provide a good port map.
I also must say, I find wiki's fairly hard to navigate.
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
Hard to navigate? How so? I'm always looking for suggestions for ways to make it easier to use...
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
so, it looks like people just put a sheet of paper and took a graphite stick and rubbed it through the cylinder, then made measurements?
true? false?
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
That is exactly how you do it. Got a cylinder? put the paper in there, take measurements :-)
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
thats how its done. i prefer grid paper if possible. just set it up so the top of the paper is at the very top of the cylinder, so dimensions can be given in reference to TDC. lightly etch over the ports and voila, a decent port map.
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
have a low torque e50 and a m48, will get on it as soon as finals are done (thursday at 9pm! YES!)
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
Question, since we are sort of on topic... on this: (sorry, i know it's huge)
What does 174
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
Damn, total fail.
"This":http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_qhEyRCc7sKE/STYhxZSSiOI/AAAAAAAAABg/GAuYuUjSSzY/s1600-h/Custom_Cylinder.jpg was the link that I wanted.
And, there are supposed to be degrees symbols behind all of the numbers.
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
zeta cilinder untuned
70cc Fast arrow untuned
TCCD 50cc untuned
RGD 70cc untuned
gilardoni 74cc untuned
70 airsal untuned
70 airsal untuned >new version
TCCD 70cc tuned
MK 74cc untuned
65 MetraKit untuned
50 airsal untuned
70 ajh
47mm polini af1
From Puchforum.net
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
BAH!
Some pic links didn't work. right click on them, click on properties, copy the link and paste in in your browser. I don't know why they didn't work and I give up trying to post pics five times.
Eric
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
Let's try one last time...
70cc Fast arrow untuned
TCCD 50cc untuned
RGD 70cc untuned
gilardoni 74cc untuned
70 airsal untuned
70 airsal untuned >new version
TCCD 70cc tuned
MK 74cc untuned
65 MetraKit untuned
50 airsal untuned
70 ajh
47mm polini af1
65cc eurokit
puch ms/mv50
Malossi 60cc
65cc polini
75cc autista
70cc athena
70cc k-star
74.6cc eurokit
From Puchforum.net
Eric
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
It would be nice to know what bikes these are for. "airseal" doesn't tell me what bike it's for. ;-) And.... I think I might just pull togother a webpage to keep all of these togother for us.
Anyone have top speed specs to go with the porting jobs they've done?
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
how about a stock puch jug? open transfer version
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
I have stock port maps, but I won't be able to scan them untill monday.
Eric
P.S. All the port maps I posted are for puch kits, except the polini AF1 which is made for an aprillia and therefore needs a 5mm spacer in order to work on a puch. sorry for the confusion.
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
Dude, top speed has to do with a number of factors, not just port map. What exhaust, what gearing, and what size carburetor have HUGE effects on top speed. You can't base a top speed calculation on a portmap. Oh, and since those are from PUCHforum.net, they're probably for puchs.
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
You're right. But nobody around here dynos their bikes so it's the best i can get from them. ;-)
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
you could do all the porting you want to any one of these jugs, and it will still go slower than the stock jug if your jetting is way off, your timing is off, your exhaust is clogged, etc. Portmap is not HP.
That being said, with a little dremel work, all of these cylinders could go faster than these portmaps allow, if all other tuning is correct. If you want to port a jug, look at JAPP's puch calculator on the wiki and read the articles on calculating port timing.
Sorry to hijack your thread...
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
I'm not asking for porting lessons ;-) That's something I don't need. I"m trying to weasel the information out of all of everyone here. There is no "good" collection of information. The wiki here is weak (I will be working on it......) and where there's decent information on one bike, there's nothing on the next. General information is often piled under specific bikes. That too is neither here nor there!
Porting, is something you can look at universally. What works for one bike, (with a little scaling for stroke) will work for other bikes.
Thing is, port maps are next to useless without any information to go with them. Top speed information is about the only thing I could ask for. As nobody dynos their bikes. It's "something" it's not good, it may not even be vaguely accurate, but it is better than nothing.
And yes, jetting matters a lot. so does the exhaust. And so does other intake modifications. Heck, just jetting rich can get you 1000rpm of overrun on the top, but it will make your midrange weak. We have to start somewhere. Speaking of which, I wonder if the people who said they were getting their bikes dynoed, did?
Keep the port maps coming people! :-) The database will get bigger, and we'll be able to start perfecting the craft of tuning mopeds!
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
As you will notice, most of the port maps you see here are fairly similar. You don't really get anything radical or cool. I would say the most technologically advanced portmap we have right now is the one for the 64cc polini puch kit. Once you get into water-cooled kits, you may see some cooler stuff, since you can go with a more radical portmap so cooling is taken care of, but as far as more advanced portmaps go, you kind of need to look into grafting racing scooter cylinders onto moped bottom ends.
If you do research on the different kit cylinders, or even look on the performance spreadsheet, you can begin to get an idea of what top speeds people are reaching with different kits.
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
;-) Guess what I have in the mail already. A derbi 70cc water cooled cylinder. I think we'll find out how well the peugeot belt drive handles twice the rpm, and three times the torque...
I learned the lesson of water cooling years ago when I was trying to figure out why motorcycle mfg's abandoned the simplicity of air cooled motors. And it's all about head cooling... Enter the oil cooled head, and then the water cooled head.
As for radical or cool, they run six and seven port designs on r/c car motors. Which pull the same horsepower a stock moped does out of a mere 3.5cc. And are all air cooled. ;-)
I'm not really looking for anything "radical or cool" yet. I'm just trying to get a picture of what is out there. And what people seem to be doing to their motors. Getting the cylinders down in the record, can't hurt.
Don't stop posting port maps, the more the better!
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
Stock Solo
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
@Harvey- have you modified anything on a solo engine for more hp? I've been looking mine over, but I don't know what parts (mainly intakes) will cross over to the solo case.
Eric
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
Come on, lets see some more port maps!
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
My turn I think. 70cc Peugeot 103 Airsal.
Re: Port maps. Who's done them, who can post them
I thought I'd say it now ;-) If anyone objects to me stealign these images for a webpage, speak up now. I'm going to go make the page.
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