I was wondering what are the stiffest clutch springs i can get for my puch maxi with stock clutch. I have a 70cc airsal with 16 carb . I'm tired of sucky low end. Treats doesnt have any but 1977 and moped shop have yellow and red ones, whats the diff and are blue ones stokc?
Puch Clutch Springs
Re: Puch Clutch Springs
im curious about springs as well. i havent played with clutch tuning yet but im doing a full engine re-build this winter
Re: Puch Clutch Springs
Gil, I'll be in town this weekend you should come hang out with the Spokes.
So if you're going to use the stock 2 shoe don't waste your $ on new springs. You can get more performance out of your clutch by lightening the shoes. Call me and I'll walk you through it, and few other secret tips i have.
There was recently a post about tuning 2-shoe clutches that you'd find helpful.
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Get the PAZ springs from 1977 and call it a day.
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FYI...Paz springs have little to no positive effect on the stock two shoe clutches. They do however make a world of difference on the cheap-o three shoes.
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They are stiffer than the shitty aftermarket ones on all of the clutches that you can find.. If you can get your hands on the OG blue ones that were in the Puch 3 shoe, get those.
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Chris you realize he has a stock 2 shoe right?
Stock 2 shoe springs are more then stiff enough if the shoe are lightened. Paz springs don't make a notable difference at all in stock 2 shoe.
Nothing against Chris Paz or his springs, in fact I bought like 15 when he first released them, and i do run them in all my cheap-o after market 3 shoes; I just feel it's a waste to put them on a stock 2 shoe when for less money and about the same amount of time you could just lighten the shoes and get a much better performance gain.
I've expressed my opinion take it for what it's worth, and like i said just give me a call Gil and i can walk you through it.
If i get time this winter I do a side by side comparison of the stock 2 shoe spring, cheap-o 3 shoe springs, OEM Puch blue/green springs, and Treats super super clutch springs. My first impression is that the Puch OEM ones are the stiffest.
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You should definitely do this and post it in the wiki...
I do realize he's got a two shoe, but the stiffer the spring, the better when you tighten them and they will spin out to higher RPMS than a shitty spring that is tightened is what I'm thinking... So i dunno.
He asked what kind of springs to get. I answered. If he hasn't tried tightening them already then he should do that first to see if it works... If you are going to buy springs for your puch clutch, why not support the pimp and buy Paz springs?
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I will, I'm still not familiar with posting in the Wiki just reading. I sill need to Wiki the post i did on tuning the 2-shoes.
Stock 2-shoe springs do not = shitty springs. They are much stiffer then the ones in the cheap-o 3 shoe and almost as stiff as Paz's (his are shorter though). Before Paz springs were available what do think people who couldn't find blue ones did for there after market 3 shoes? They put the ones from stock 2 shoes in, which does actually work very well.
I was in no way saying not to buy Paz's, you should buy them, they are great if you have shitty springs; but also totally unnecessary for a stock 2 shoe.
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Got it...
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I just reread the initial question, sorry I ignored it and went off on a tangent about clutch tuning.
Chris' first answer was correct, PAZ (orange) springs are the stiffest you can buy from a shop right now.
Blue/green came stock on the later 80's e50's.
Re: Puch Clutch Springs
Paz springs on a lightened 2 shoes are most excellent when dialed in. I love mine
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In Holland we sometimes make use of "red" springs who are ment to be for a Blata minibike. I don`t know if you know what a minibike is, maybe it`s just a sport in holland/europe. it are very tiny mopeds who look like race-motorcycles, and race on a track.
De red springs are very stiff, so you can achieve more rpm before the puch moves. The clutch needs some adjustements, the springs are bigger. I hope the blata-minibikes (or parts) are sold in the USA, in that way my reaction can maybe help you :)
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Sweet thx all.
I will give you a call derek when my clutch puller comes in the mail. Ordered from treats yesterday so today or friday i guess. I havent gone riding for a while cause my peds been acting up , mostly it bogging down while taking off after warmed up. I thought it was airleaks so i got pretty much most of them fixed and ported and matched my intake manifold other day with my kit and now i can't get my ped to not die when i take off hehe.
I guess im gonna give the originals a try first and see how i like them , then possilbly order the yellow ones.
Gonna try to make that ride friday if ped working good, which i hope it will, been messing with it soo much the past 2 weeks. My bro also got a honda hobbit about 2 weeks ago we been messing with too. Variators are neat.
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I remove material from the 3 and 2 shoe clutches. the 3 shoe with removed material, paz springs, and special tranny fluid shreds hard.
its a combo of things that make a difference.
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lightened cheapo 3 shoe, with paz springs and special tranny fluid = a 2 speed e50, shred city. Its the combo that really makes it
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What's the secret, special tranny fluid you're using please?
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Most people like running either Motul 30w gear oil in there transmissions or Mobil 1 Full SYnt 0w20 motor oil.
Just over fill your transmission a bit around 8oz is good, and change it often as the oil breaks down and dose not work as well after awhile.
Regarding the Paz springs, the ones 77 now has in stock are a little bit longer to work well with the 2 shoe clutches, and still work great with the 3 shoe.
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I want someone to do a comparison between a 2-shoe and 3-shoe with:
a. oem puch springs
b. blue treats springs
c. orange paz springs
d. treats black kickstart springs
Maybe do a test from 0-40 with ATF versus 30w on each setup... Any volunteers?
I have a lightened 2 shoe/3 shoe along with oem and blue springs. Anyone want to donate orange and kickstart springs for a writeup?
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do you have a tach too? that might be helpful in doing your comparison
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Kick starts, nothing else is even close to being as stiff.
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Theres alot of low end power to be had with a bigger carb/pipe and a well tuned clutch on an e50. Easy to tune as well with a speedo and digital tach. My 2 favoite setups:
1.) Stock 2 shoe lightened to 75g per arm by means of lopping off the far ends (away from the posts) and making a sort of box shape. I run stock springs in em and they launch at around 5000-5500 rpm, hang there for a few seconds , and fully engage the clutch bell (1:1) at around 25 miles an hour. U can manipulate a good 5 mph of engagement (and several hundred rpms) either way just by adjusting spring tension.
2.) Find a 3 shoe korado clutch, the ones with double the length/amount of clutch material on each shoe. Remove the run-out pins and take 2 of the shoes and toss em on a 2 shoe plate. I lighten these to aroung 80-85 grams by means of drilling out 2 holes towards the far end from the pin. For this setup I run the kickstart springs. Gives a much different feel to the launch. Alot more grab per revolution I think? Yet still allows good slip to 25ish mph, but u need the stiff spring to hold back a heavier shoe. Only reason i convert the korado ones from 3 shoe to 2 shoe is the additional weight from the 3rd shoe, post, etc, wont give me the same launch.
Both these mods let you slip right into the powerband of most pipes, so you dont have to struggle through the crappy low end of many kits/pipes that are designed for higher mid-top speeds.
Also, regarding longevity, I'm a big dude (230ish). Ive ran both of these clutches on different setups for a good 2 solid years of a maybe 2000 miles a year? so they definitly hve some mileage on them. All i have ever had to use is atf type f. I change it every 200-300 miles or so? It's usually pretty nasty by that point and begins to slip differently. (edited)
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i've taken the 3 2 shoe clutch shoes (1 and a 1/2 2 shoe clutches), cut them down and put them on a 3 shoe plate with good success. I cut the ends down so they didn't touch and got them down to 75g each and used kickstart springs and a brace. after 8 months on a gila NO WEAR and it revs right into the destroyer pipe.
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U running atf or something different?
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ND30 bro
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I just took the red shoes off a treats 3 shoe, lightened them, put two of them in a 2-shoe base plate, added blue springs. It revs at a stop decently, but once you try to take off it grabs too much and bogs the motor down. Maybe I'll try some 30 weight.
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or some stiffer springs
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oor some royal purple 0-75 for $15 a qt .
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Hello, I am looking to tune my 2-shoe maxi clutch, but don't quite understand your instructions about where to cur the existing shoes. Is it where I have placed the red lines or somewhere else?
Re: Puch Clutch Springs
no don't cut there, you need the little pads on the bottom, cut at an angle like how it was cut already
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