In what order does each Brand/company has the most potential
for improvement based on stock/aftermarket options,etc.
I dont really know but i this is what i would guess..
Motobecane
Peugeot
Ciao
Puch
Tomos
Sachs
Minarelli
Garelli
Please feel free to add more names to the mix..
thats just off the top of my head.
honda pa50!!
Solo has no new parts, but I've heard from a few people that they will go fast with a little coaxing.
Add at the end suzuki because it won't go fast enough to hit the powerband on the only preformance pipe available for it.
Eric
P.S. This thread makes me sad because the best bike I have is a Puch.
As far as parts and kits availability, the Puch Maxi leads the pack.
As the saying goes: Speed costs. How fast do you want to go?
More like this:
Puch
Tomos
Motobecane
Minarelli
Peugeot
Ciao
Garelli
Sachs
With Puch and Tomos having tons of stuff, Motobecane and Minarelli having a good amount of stuff, and the others having rare, or few parts and need for a lot of customization.
^ I agree jugger on availability, but some of those options have more "potential" than others. Specifically, Puch for cheap availability at all times, and one of the frenchies (probably Moby) for insane/expensive performance potential.
vespa and or derbi (variated counterclutch bikes) i'd say tie for most potential ever. that has nothing to do with part availability in the states however.
then peugeot (variated swinging setup)
followed by motobecane ( exactly like peugeot but less reliable) then puch (most aftermarket support of all with a simple clean design ripe for modding) almost a tie tho IMO
afterwards:
minnerelli (check out what they are doing ins South America with these)
honda
tomos
sachs
garelli
the lower ones are all around the same however, honestly any bike has the potential to be a champ some are just easier.
if the list was purely parts based it would look more like this:
Puch
peugeot
motobecane av10 (euro import only)
tomos
minnerelli
vespa
honda
derbi
sachs
motobecane av7 (usa motobecanes)
garelli
what do you mean by counterclutch elliot?
im beginning to become a huge fan of variators-peugeots in particular.
mostly easy to find parts that are still being made. hard to beat that. look for some screamers coming out of kalamazoo this year.
I think elliots list is the best so far.
I tune vespa,
and parts availability is great.
I can get everything brand new but its fairly expensive,
so I might put that a little higher on the list.
Potential wise, variation is the way to go.
Honda Hobbits should be up there with Vespas and Derbis. They have the same "variated counter clutch".
The problem with Vespas and Hobbits is that they get rev limited cause you can't change the gearing without replacing the rear transmission gears. Which are around for Vespas but are hard to come by for Hobbits.
The Derbi is better because it includes the chain in the transmission and you can change sprockets to re-gear it.
French Variated bikes have a short belt which drives the chain which drives the wheel. when the the variator moves so does the engine to account for the changing pulley size. Counter clutch bikes account for this without the engine needing to move. On a vespa the clutch is mounted on the rear wheel (no chain) and the pulley behind it has a spring in it. as the front variator pushes the belt outward it pulls the belt inward in the rear (duel variation) this has the affect of making a more significant "gear change" as you go up and down through the revs. so when the front is big the back is small (top speed) and when the front is small the back is big (hill climb) its the best of both worlds! Ciao For the win!
So derbi is number 1!!!
I want mine fast.
oh yea, since there are the different motor types, the flat-reed/pyramid reed have amazing derbi cylinders, but on piston port you have SO many options (meaning all derbi piston port, all Puch and Tomos kits and possibly more on some).
Metra 80 or gilardoni variated bikes with crazy zen pipes is an amazing idea and combination.
Get there.
Peugeot/Motobecane
Derbi
Puch/Tomos
Minarelli
Honda
Vespa
honda pa50-i has the most _potential_
any bike you r willing to put the work into. sure they don't make parts for some but custom parts are usually better. if a kit is needed, design it how u want it. if a pipe is needed make it to where u want the power band.
example OVC on puch with the most parts they use custom parts, sure one was using a gila but even he lowered the squish band. they all had home made expansion chambers and all of there cylinder heads were modified.
i definitely think vespa should be up there. parts availability is sick. just look at treats. if you have money (just like puchs or mobys), and some creative genes, you can make ciaos fly. ask terry or rufus or qwestlove.
example: variated + ~90cc Simonini kit... oh me oh my.
yeah maybe vespa above tomos on my list 2 (usa parts availability has recently sky rocketed), i still think its tied with derbi for most potential but also comes with the most work to get that potential
french bikes do reign supreme IMO when it comes to all around performance vs ease of build and part availability so i have placed the Peugeot high on both lists. Obviously puch is taking the topspeed seat and easiest of build out of all with part availability and general knowledge the highest.
honda isn't up there with vespa or derbi for reasons mentioned earlier about gearing and just general lack of parts and ease of build. i think minerelli is an underestimated puch rival so i placed it high, but has a less clean motor design.
I think any bike has the potential to be the master blaster 4 sure. even a solex
vespa can go super fast. Its the fucking rear hub that eats balls.
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