Didn't I tell you not to look?
Well, since you're here I might as well show you this:
As you can see, it's a clutch and it's 65% of the weight of a stock 3-shoe with more than 4 times the surface area.. There's probably even more weight coming off, as the segments aren't tested or balanced yet.
Any questions?
brake shoes?
They're clutch segments now.
2 shoe plate modded to fit those crazy shoes, probably from a scooter?
I have been waiting for someone to do something like this. Hurry up and test it. What did you use for pad material?
Yes.
To prevent "Guess-what-this-is" posts:
It's a 2-shoe clutch plate with a set of brake shoes, modified to fit the plate & clutchbell. For springs, I use scooter clutch springs because they're cheap and easy to get.
As for what brake shoes these are: I am clueless. My favorite moped shop had them lying around in a box full of old un-assorted parts, and they were a good fit. So I got em for free with some other stuff.
The pad material is brake-material. As that is generally the same asbestos junk as clutch liner is. If it doesn't work well, I have some ideas to line it with something else.
It is particularly sweet since you sourced your parts not only from the moped world but from the very same bike you will use it on. Could experiment with different pivot points. Genius!
holy shit. maybe someone will know what those shoes came from.
sick.
I wonder what RPM those will fully grab?
Are the shoes just floating over the pins on the clutch plate? Seems like they could just "float" off.
Whoops not Puch brake shoes
The centrifugal force "should" make them go straight out and straight back in, but maybe some different c-clips to keep them in line?
Where would they float? The clutch liner just barely clears the drum, and the springs are the softest in the set and are already so tight, I can't get the segments on or off without a vice.
Whats holding them to the clutch plate? what is to keep them from spinning so fast that they disengage from the plate entirely?
well never mind i see how it will be held in place by the bell (stress point!!) and the rotation but at high rpm the pads will be fully outwards is there enough surface area around the cylindrical pins when fully engaged...?
as i understand it the pads are not physically locked into place on the clutch plate so at full engagement they will be in a different location rotationally to the pins (and differnt position they were in at 0 rpm) on the plate that normally hold them in place. This will be due to the rotational force of the motor attempting to drive the loaded clutch bell faster than it wants to go. ie clutch arms are stressed trying to move the bike because they are engaged with the bell thus transferring the stress into the pins, but ur clutch pads aren't attached to the pins, so the are free to float around and seat where ever the please...
maybe there is not enough space for them t travel outwards for this to matter.
hard to explain for me in words, i'm sure u know what i mean.
hot damn
i cant wait until you start modding this ZA.
How long is your clutch bell going to last with this setup? Genius idea, by the way, I NEVER would have thought of this in a million years.
Is that my 3 shoe? I have moneys...
Yes, that's your 3-shoe ;)
@Elliot: I see your concern. at this point, the only way the segments can fully disengage the plate is when the padding is used up, otherwise the segments wouldn't be able to travel out enough because of the ) shaped end of the segments. These ) shaped ends are placed so that the baseplate will spin "into" them. I do share your concern about stresspoints tho. I will make reinforcements to the baseplate, so the pins won't bend out.
@ar: I don't know how long the clutchbell is going to last. There's 2 options: Total failure and complete success. If the bell can hold the force of the segments completely hanging on it, it will be fine. As the brake liner won't do more damage to the bell than normal clutch liner.
However, if the bell doesn't like the force the segments put on it, it will break and it will be disaster all around. I don't think that will happen tho. The surface area is a lot bigger than with the normal clutch, the segments are lighter and so I think the pressure wouldn't be too high for the clutch to handle.
Whatever the outcome, it won't make me cry. I have some spare clutch bells and 2-shoe baseplates can be bought for a couple of bucks each. The worst thing that could happen is that I have to clean the inside of the engine to get metal out :P
@Graham: I don't think I'll be heavily modding the ZA. Those are quite rare overhere, so I will pamper it like it were my lovechild :P
My brakes work poorly when wet, I wonder how well they will work soaked in tranny fluid. Crazy that those fit right in there.
Well, technically speaking the worse that could happen is that it flies apart and locks the engine hard at speed, and you crash and die.
But it looks like a sweet set up, and I'm sure you'll test it lots at speeds low enough not to die :-)
If it works amazingly, it would be awesome to be able to buy these through one of the online shops. <wink wink, nudge nudge>
If it flies apart and locks up the engine, I'll just skid out. And with the speeds I'll be testing this at, it won't kill me. I won't be blasting this at 50MPH the first time I ride it :P
@Rafter: Your brakes work poorly when wet because you can only apply so much pressure with your hands. Even completely lubed up brakes can be made to lock, if the pressure is high enough. So I don't worry about the pads being slippery. Normal clutch-pads are slippery too.
I went to balance the clutch yesterday, and to my surprise it was already completely balanced :| I guess I'm pretty good at eye-balling things :P
I've weighed the segments, and they weigh 47 grams each. Meaning the baseplate weighs 277 grams. I think there's much to be won there, but first I want to test the concept b4 spending hours into modding the baseplate.
I was going to test the clutch yesterday, until I found out I had a flat tire. It's ripped at the valve :( So I'm going to get a new tube today and then see how it does. I'll be filming the b4 and after situation.
No testing today. My ped is on a hate campaign against me.
First the flat tire, fixed that. Then the startercable snapped, fixed that... And now the starter-lever on the engine broke off... So it won't start.
I think you need to balance the baseplate too. The part you had to cut in the center for the springs looks uneven. Other than that, when you test it, tell us when it grabs.
what bike is this for?
poooch
schijnheilig, do you think you could run a puch clutch without tranny fluid if the gears didnt need it?
hey rafter i know a few ppl who have run a puch w/o tranny fluid for over a year lol.
but it always leads to bearing fatigue.
this is a good thread.
@Eric: Yeah, I agree. But as I said, that's all work for when I proved the theory. I'm not going to spend hours on finishing something that I'm not sure of if it works.
@Davey: Puch Maxi. E-50.
@Rafter: Yes, it has been done. Don't run a stock clutch dry tho. It'll burn up the segments and the clutchbell. It is murder on your bearings tho. So if you could mod the cases so the bearings have a lil oil bath but the clutch is dry, you could be in business. You could use a dry moped or scooter clutch. Or you don't mod the cases and replace your bearings every couple of hundred miles :P
@Lee: I agree :)
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