Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

Ok I have a 69 Ciao Just got a set of bravo wheels, Variator, and clutch

Was going to go with the simo circuit pipe

13/13 carb

and my main question is can i do it with the 43mm kit or I need the 46mm?

What is the best kit? Was looking at the 70cc olympia 43mm and the olympia high compression head any thoughts on the?

How hard is it to grind the case for the 46mm? Needs to be done at the machine shop? WHere do you grind it at?

How much dose putting the different gears in the trans help out?

Thanks everyone!

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

Brian Smithmeyer /

Well, I can tell you that I have a 43mm kit, 13/13 carb, and a pipe and I'm only at 38 mph.

You'll definitely need the trans gears to get you up to that speed range.

I'm not sure what it takes to put the 46mm kit on.

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

I have a grande with a malossi multivar, 43mm kit, 13.13 and Leo Vince pipe (copy of Proma Circuit) with a ground crank and intake opened to 13mm. It will do 45, and the Grande weighs almost 50% more than a bare Ciao. You will likely need gears to get it much past 45, but it should be doable. Definitely get the multivar, though, and be prepared to grind the crank and open that intake to take advantage of your larger carb.

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

Great, Is there a page where it shows me how to grind the crank and open the intake? I am not sure how to do this but If i can get some instructions maybe pic's it won't be a problem at all...

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

the intake is in the wiki and look up vespa crank trick in search and that should show that.

The variator is good for bottom end but kills top end.

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

To go from stock to 45 mph+ figure on spending some cash.

General prices:

Cylinder $150 and up

Variated rear wheel or hub $100

Performance Variator $120

New Belt $20

13/13 carb $80

High Flow air filter $15

Performance exhaust $110 and up

Performance gears $170

Total = $765 or about $50 per mph

If you don't care about low end, you can skip the variator parts and spend $40 on a smaller pulley setup and save yourself $350. That brings it down to $415 or about $28 per mph. Of course that doesn't include shipping and other misc. parts and supplies.

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

Wow! Now I'm kind of depressed. I have spent WAY too much money on my mopeds.

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

Not really worried about spending that sort of money on my ped. It's sort of a hobby thing and will have fun doing it. Where I live there are NO cool peds around so I would like something cool and different just for fun :). So you don't think the Var. is necessary? It will just help me with low end? Why will it kill my top end?

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

You gotta be doing something wrong or something, mike, or the belt on the Ciao is harder to get right or something...my Multivar added low and top end when I installed it.

Youve got the wheels and stuff, so that leaves (by my estimates):

Multivar: $110

Cylinder kit: $170

Exhaust: ~$145

13.13: $60

Filter: $18

Belt: $20

Jets and parts: $20

You could save some money by ordering all this from Treatshq at once. Gears would be good at some point too, but I suspect that setup right there plus a ground crank and intake will get you 45mph.

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

My setups all have 64cc top ends and I'd be lucky to do better than 40-is without gears. With a 70 -80 cc kit you can probably get to 45 or better. You can go faster with a standard ciao transmission and a smaller pulley than you can with the standard variated gears. (so I hear) but it will take a lot longer to get there. I'm going the belt and pulley route with some performance front clutch springs on my latest project. I want to play with that setup before going the variator route again.

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

Changing the gears helps a lot tho? Ya I sorta want to zoom off the line, sorta sporty that way I guess :). Dose anyone know what needs to be ground to install the 46mm kits? Dose it come with instructions? Can u do it yourself?

Also I am def. going to be grinding crank and drilling intake, need to get all I can from that little carb :)

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

I have the malossi gears on my grande. They are slower off the line but they ad at least 5 mph to your cruising speed. On flat takeoffs they are pretty good but if it is uphill I usually pedal 1-2 revolutions to help it off of the line. That is with a 64cc DR cylinder ground and bored crank and intake, and a multivar with the stock malossi weights.

I have a variated ciao with a polini 64cc kit, shaved head, a polini variator, and standard gears. It takes off like a rocket but only goes about 40-ish (maybe). I don't know if it is drilled and ground though. That motor had the kit on it when I got it and I'm too lazy to tear it apart to find out.

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

variator trans holds you at about 45mph james thats why i say it kill top end performance. Its fine at top end but it winds out the motor really fast.

Hey tyraliff how did you get the multivar to work on your ciao. I can't get it to work the belt just spins on the variator axle and never engages.

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

Mike,

Are you sure that all of the keyed parts of the miltivar are fitting together properly? The Miltivar (malossi) is on my grande and I have to pry the rear pulley apart a bit and pull the belt down into the pulley to get enough slack so that I can get all of the keyed bits of the variator to fit together before I can crank the nut down on the crank.

I have the Polini variator on the ciao and it is a bit easier to get everything together and crank the nut down. Personally I think that the polini and the malossi perform about the same when you compare them with the same weights. The Malossi one is a bit flashier looking. I have to pry the rear pulley apart to get enough slack on the ciao too.

I have the malossi ciao belt from Treats. Other than it being kind of a bitch to get things situated properly, I have never had any problems getting the variator to work on my ciao. It is a '74 foreign model and it was a 30 km/h version before the variator.

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

i just got it to work with the pirelli belt and the multivar its a total fucking pain in the ass though

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

On mine I used to have to pry the pulley open a bit and push the belt down in there a tad to get it easily over the front bushing. With the reinforced spring I cant pull the pulley open and I just have to muscle the belt over the corner of the bushing and turn the flywheel a tad so it seats on. Not too bad.

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

James,

How much difference does the reinforced spring make? Was it worth the effort to get the old one off and the new one on?

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

lay your ped on the side and spray pb blaster into the axle to get the wood ruff key lose. After i did that a few times the rear clutch comes off super easy now.

And it did make a differnce on mine but it seems like the bike will have to be running start every time. But my ish isn't running condensor crap out.

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

I don't have any problems removing the clutch. It seems like it would be a huge pain in the ass to remove the rear pulley spring and get the stiffer one on there. I just don't know if it is worth the hassle.

FYI- Be careful with the new wudruff keys that are out there. A lot of the new ones you get from places like Zippy's are a little wider than stock. If it doesn't go in the slot easily, sand it down or it will be virtually impossible to get back out. I spent a very frustrating hour removing one to get my grande clutch off.

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

actually im doing the some what same thing except i got a kinetic.. but at any rate im hoping to put the 75CC cia speed kit on. But my question is how can i check to make sure my bore is right b/c the kit is 46mm and im tight on funds so i dont wanna go ahead and order it and be like f*** when it gets here lol

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

The largest cylinder that will bolt up to a vespa or kinetic engine without modification is 43mm or 64~65cc. Any larger than that and you will have to grind out (or bore out) the inside of the case to fit the cylinder sleeve.

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

i havnt realy tried this on a mope lol but another somewhat noob question. since it'll have the head wil i be able to bolt it upto my case, or will i need to do some maodifacation to the the case?

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

its not a pain getting the spring in. It took me about 10 mins. It all separates than you put the new spring in

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

So for the 46mm kit u need to bring your engine to the machine shop and have it bored out? that's it?

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

Yes. Or, you can do it with a dremel tool and patience.

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

How much difference is there from 43 to 46 as far as power goes?

Re: Ciao want 45-55mph... Will this do it?

Ty,

The spring wasnt too much of a pain to get in given the proper tools (impossible with the improvised ones I tried it with at first). I used a bench vise, some kind of crazy compression vice-grips that looks like a vice grip with a big U thing where the jaw half should be, and a 34mm (I think) socket with a 2' bar. clamp the pulleys open, clap it in the vice, and turn it. Take it out of the vice, stand on the lower pulley half, remove the clamps, and finish disassembly. Then do it in reverse with the new spring in.

To answer you question: hell yes it was worth it. It used to surge on acceleration after I added the multivar (fairly common based on these forums), now it has zero surge, and I just now confirmed I can do wheelies if I stand on the bitch pegs. Scared the crap out of me.

You will probly need a new belt at the same time you put the spring on, and the belt you put on will not be usable if you switch back to the stock one. I doubt you'll want to, though.

« Go to Topics — end of thread

Want to post in this forum? We'd love to have you join the discussion, but first:

Login or Create Account