So thats my problem. Engine turns over really easy with the stock variator and the malossi belt.
When i switch to the malossi variator and the belt and i try to pedal start the belt just slips on the variator. Also it seems that the new larger plate is hitting the frame so that may be one of the problems it has to over come the engine and the friction from the frame.
But iono
any one else have this problem with there ciaos?
DEAN were are you
I have the same problem on my bravo. I slotted the holes for the engine to move it forward and pull the belt tighter, but that didn't help. Well, it stopped the belt from slipping, but now the rear clutch doesn't have enough ooompfh to turn the engine over.
I read about a few people saying the 4L410 would help. I ordered two of those and it still doesn't work.
I like the performance of the variator and it is much smoother than my stock one, but it's all worthless if I have to start my bike with a drill every time.
I just gave up and put the stock one back on. I'm tired of messing with it.
Did you put the yellow spring in the rear of yours? I did not.
Yeah, I had the same thing with my Grande. There are two ways around this. One is to buy a 4L410 from Ace for $7, which will run it fine but is not a terribly high quality belt and tends to wear faster than the stock Pirelli. The alternative is to install the reinforced rear spring, which will apply enough force to the stock belt to keep it taught.
Well, the belt didn't help me at all. I tried a lot of different adjustments with it too.
What does the rear spring actually do? I thought it put more pressure on the rear variator to affect the gearing as you drove the bike....basically to keep the front variator in a good power range. I didn't think it affected the starting clutch at all.
I'm having this issue on a Ciao with the 8 roller variator and a Grande rear hub. I had to put a few thin washers under the variator so it doesn't pinch the frame when tightened up. Also I bent out the flanges of the frame near top and bottom of the rear pulley to clear the pulley and belt.
This stopped any added friction, but the bike still is hard as hell to start. Either the belt slips and the engine won't spin over, or the belt grabs so much that even with the decompression it barely spins over enough to start it. This seems to change. When the bike is cold the belt slips. More pedaling and it maybe heats up and grabs more.
I'm running a Pirelli belt if that matters.
Not sure that helped, but I'll be looking into this more.
awesome. Does the polini do this also? Im sure the polini will pinch the frame worse because it has bigger plates than the malossi.
So get that belt, is it possible to get it anywhere but ace. I live in Chicago and none of the aces have lawn or motor car crap.
And also i don't think the rear spring will do anything. because the belt stays taught but all it does is just spins on the variator axle. its stupid and fucking annoying
You can get the belt from here, but I'm telling you that it didn't change my situation at all:
http://www.drillspot.com/products/31058/Gates_Rubber_CO_4L410_MM_41X1_2_Fhp_V_Belt
The reinforced spring just keep ths whole transmission assembly tighter so theres less slack in things and the belt will slip less. The starter clutch is not the problem unless it isnt engaging, but it sounds like it is. It's just your belt slipping over the variator bushing. A stronger rear spring will keep more pressure on the belt and it wont slip as much.
The center diameter of the Multivar is significantly smaller than the stock one, which is why it improves your low-end. This also means less tension on the belt, though, so you need the stronger rear spring to pick up the slack.
Mike: yeah, 4L410 is a standard size, any mower place should have them. Ebay has them.
I'll try to install the yellow spring this weekend, but my guess is that it won't help....in which case I'll be selling that variator very shortly. I would much rather have a bike that starts easily and runs slower than one that doen't start and runs fast.
just did the spring that shit didn't do anything. I assume that belt is a little wider. What i have notice is that there is slack between the variator weight cover and the pulley and it isn't up against the side of the belt like it is on the stock.
Put the stock one back on and it was fine, but now i get to find an air leak shouldn't of half assed the RTV and cleared the old gunk off.
SIGH
Might be a bit different cause it's a Ciao, I know the drive length is a bit different, so it's possible a 4L410 wont pull it tight on one.
well i dremeled the holes out longer a long time ago becuase of the malossi belt not fitting. I don't know whats up wtih this one. any one have the belt dimension but shorter so i can just go to an auto store?
So has this issue been solved? I'm in the same boat. The center diameter of the malossi variator is smaller than the stock. And the belt sits on the outside of the rear pulley. I don't see how the rear spring can take up that much slack. There isn't really room to move out. But then again I haven't tried it yet. I'm thinking about that twizzler belt it has links so its adjustable... Thoughts?
which malossi variator are you running? on my er2 i have to shove cardboard scraps in the variator to get it to engage. i have heard of people having to do this with the variotops too. maybe give that a shot.
I think most of us on this thread are running the multivar. I met a guy at the rally today who runs the malossi belt and variator. His belt looks WAY loose, over an inch of deflection, but it runs great. said he tried a shorter belt but went back cause it wasn't variating all the way. He did say not to put in the yellow spring till you've got a kit. apparently it's too stiff for the stock jug.
yeah based on durfeys suggestion and my experience with 64cc and under kits, dont yellow spring it unless you are over 64cc
ok, I put on the multivar and Malossi belt (no yellow spring) the belt is quite loose but I can still peddle start it... Sweet! the 4.7G weights seem to light. I just went down to treats†and picked up 8G weights. I will report back shortly.
SWEET! 8 gram weights did the trick. if your thinking about this set up I would get them right away. those 4.7 gram weights must be for bikes with the stock exhaust cause they were way too light. so yah Multivar and malossi belt works even though the belt looks really loose. on the up side you don't have to move the engine to get it on and off. I do have to peddle a bit more to start it but its really not that bad. Oh, and a side note, the my favorite new tool is a large oil filter wrench, a strap wrench would work too, you can just grab the variator it self and get the nut off. No piston stop and striped spark plug threads! Now I have to re build my rear wheel... Damn! I've got a couple broken spokes and a dented rim. This is gonna be a bitch.
From what I read no one has really answered this problem...I'm having the same issue of the belt slipping on the front variator...I don't really want to carry a cordless drill with me to start the bike. Anyone got any ideas?
I put the maltivar on Bravo a few days ago, and it slipped all over the place. Moved the engine all the way forward, still slipped. grabbed the belt off other Bravo, no more slipping. Same Pirelli belt, just not as stretched out/worn.
To move the engine forward, you may have to remove a plate which is riveted on at the little rear mounting bolt.
I'm going to take a belt in to an auto store, have them measure it with their fancy belt measure tool, and get one slightly shorter and move the engine back to see if that works. The hi-comp Polini head prevents me from being able to have ANY slack in the belt.
for some reason, the malossi belt for ciao is too long. i think it's because the variated ciaos in europe have larger rear pully cheeks than our lowly american ones do.
i got around this by extending the motor mount slots forward probably a quarter inch. if you do this, remember there are 5 holes total.
as for the rear cheek hitting, you need to add an extra washer or two behind the variator plate to space it out some. the larger cheek doesn't fit as well as a stock variator. i've also taken a large punch and a hammer and flattened out the rolled part of the frame some to help clear.
if you're having this issue, you probably know what i mean by "rolled part of the frame."
as isaac said, there's a plate rivited over the rear hole on (i think) every vespa frame, EXCEPT the ciao. behind it there's the long slot you need for adjustment.
when i find a new frame to replace ciaociao's twisted one (if i ever find one..) i'll actually document all the frame mods to make things fit/go on easier. i should have the first time around, but i didn't think about it apparently.
I have a caio and the malossi belt. I already drilled the holes so the engine can move forward, and the belt is as tight as it's ever been, but the belt is still slipping. Any pointers? Any other belt recommends?
are you using your decompresser when you try to start? that belt needs to be super tight, too.
if you have the belt tight and are using the decompresson valve, it should turn the motor without a problem..
the belt will slip if it's wet or something.. but after slipping a few times it should grab again.
i don't have the malossi belt, i just went and bought a belt thats a tiny bit smaller than the stock one from an auto parts store. it was $17. no slippage, no problem. it's maybe a mm wider than the stock belt too, so i don't know if thats helping, but its a little shorter, and it's so tight that i CANT push the motor further forward even if i tried. BUT i reccomend getting a helper. have them tighten the bolts while you pull the motor forward. or the other way around.
what belt? what's it for? what's the code?
My decomp isn't connected correctly. It's currently disconnected actually. Can you tell me how that's supposed to go back together and/or if there's a diagram for it somewhere. I never had to use it when I was running the stock cylinder.
i dont have a decomp sadly
i dont have the malossi belt either, but i have so much trouble starting on my grande i just went back to stock variator. :(
decompression drawing.
some have cables that route through the head into the spring.
sweet isaac! you have a larger version of that image? you must have like 800x600 resolution on your work computer..
once you have your decomp hooked up correctly, i'm about 90% sure you won't have trouble starting it.
as for you maitland, i don't know what to tell you.. maybe seek out the elusive kickstart engine?
also, i need your friend's ciao frame! :(
i was going to do the same thing, but with MS PAINT
ms paint FTW!!
anyhoo, i'll get the belt specs when i get home and write them in for you. as off hand, i don't remember
Want to post in this forum? We'd love to have you join the discussion, but first: