Starting Clutch Problems

Hi All,

Sorry to post again, my bike wins the most problematic ever. If you could offer me any help as the current (and hopefully) last problem seems to have me and everyone else here in Chicago totally stumped.

E50

3 Shoe Clutch

65 Metra

High Comp Head

The problem is that when the starter lever is engaged is does not pull hard enough to put enough pressure on the pressure plate to grab the cork on the clutch. It's touching it but without enough pressure it just slides past it, the most frustrating sensation in the world. In order to get enough pressure put on the cork the tensioner must me tensioned so far that the lever on the cover is as engaged as it will get, than you must pull on the lever so hard that it feels like you are going to break it. If you then peddle it will catch every once in a while and the bike will eventually start. Beyond this being an undesirable way to start the bike it causes a huge problem. Since the cable must be tensioned so tight it will not allow the lever to disengage the clutch; causing it to die out at idle. This theory was put to the test by starting the bike and then while keeping it alive with the throttle backing the nut off the tensioner until the lever returned to resting position. The bike ran great after that.

I have switched out the clutch cover, the pressure plate, and tried a 2 shoe and 3 shoe clutch. I have used Type F and the new Motul TransOil. I have had about 10 different people look at it. I have begged and cried and screamed. Nothing seems to make any difference. I am wondering if the crazy amount of compression I have is just to much for that dinky little starter to handle. As if it the is so much force pushing against it it just can't grab hard enough to counter it. I was wondering if scoring the back side of the pressure plate might help the problem? The plate is incredibly smooth which seems counter intuitive to something that should be grabbing.

Sorry for the long windiness of this post, if any clarification is needed please let me know, rereading it kind of made my head hurt. Thanks again.

Re: Starting Clutch Problems

is the clutch shimmed proper

Re: Starting Clutch Problems

how do you mean?

Re: Starting Clutch Problems

dude maybe thats it? check page 44 it shows spacers/shims whatever

http://www.mopedriders.org/html/manuals/puch/sm/puchsm.htm

Re: Starting Clutch Problems

oh dear god, i think that may be it. When we took it apart in your garage that one time there was definitely that spacer behind but not in front of the clutch bell. Could this be it?

Re: Starting Clutch Problems

I hope so, that or like Pat said that pin isnt going into the hole in the end of the crank enough, looks like gotta do some measuring now

Re: Starting Clutch Problems

I replied to you via email Craig but figured I would post it here too.

Shimming in no way effects the position of the clutch, it's position is determined by the taper on the crank. The shims and circlips are there to retain the clutch bell and allow the proper clearances.

If you take a crank and put the clutch onto it you will see that it bottoms out before it gets anywhere near that last circlip grove.

Re: Starting Clutch Problems

shit.

Re: Starting Clutch Problems

) Cupermcnewbster ( /

I've seen some clutch drums where it won't allow the pressure plate to fully close on the cork of the clutch. With the drum and plate off, its sits flush in the grooves, correct? Also, you have all the circlips and shims in there? I mean if it wasn't all thrown together just right, that could cause the clutch to slide down the shaft a bit further. In fact, I think I did that when I built my 1st e50. Lemme check something out.

Re: Starting Clutch Problems

i think that it has to be something along those lines, like a missing piece or something put together incorrectly. That seems like it would be the only reason why using different clutches, plates, and covers would make no difference. I have to wait until tomorrow night or thursday to get at my bike which is up at the shop to confirm any of this.

Re: Starting Clutch Problems

) Cupermcnewbster ( /

Ok, I say its a shimming issue. If the drum is shimmed too far out, the pressure plate won't be able to fully depress with the starter clutch cable, meaning the plate is bottoming out on the grooves cut into the drum. A smaller shim will push the drum back and allow the pressure plate to grab the cork and hopefully make it all work. Give it a shot!

Re: Starting Clutch Problems

niiiiiice, thanks dude! I'm going to check it out and post the details.

Re: Starting Clutch Problems

ok, just thought I would tell you guys what happened. I worked on the bike all day yesterday. I checked everything out, measured shit, went over it with a fine tooth comb. nothing. Alex eventually begins to wonder if it was the lack of the woodruff key on the performance crank. Bam! Thats what it is, no woodruff key on crank, no woodruff key in 3 show clutch. It wasn't the pressure plate slipping at all, it was the entire clutch assembly actually slipping on the crank! This was confirmed by cracking the cases and putting a stock crank and two show in, no more slipping.

So!

I know I am not the only person running a 3 show with a Top racing crank? Why is this not happening to everyone else? How can this work without the woodruff key? Thoughts?

Re: Starting Clutch Problems

As I was told by Devin when I rebuilt mine the key is there so it doesnt slip but if you tighten the 3-shoe down enough it wont slip. I dont have a key in mine.

So you put the TOP crank and 2 shoe in? Did this fix your problem?

Re: Starting Clutch Problems

he put a stock one in

Broberto thats too funny

Re: Starting Clutch Problems

dude I fuckin torques that thing down haaaaaaaaaaaaard. shit was still slipping.

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