Just got my 64cc Malossi kit today. Trying to translate some of the Italian on this paper. Other than running 3% oil, drilling the intake (done), and grinding the crank (have a racing crank), I see what I translate as 19 degrees before TDC. Anyone know what that translates to point-gap wise?
Already ordered some b8hs' to use.
Anything else I should know?
Bump
how did you drill out the intake james? Drill press?
Also are you sure the performance cranks are shaved i don't think they all are. I would stay with the standard .18 i think gapping i could be wrong as terry dean
I hope you were extra careful when drilling out your intake! Screw up the rotary pad and your screwed. There is not a lot of material you can cut off. How does the performance crank seal with it?
I think points gap is .40mm like most other bikes. The ignition timing is set and you can't change it.
yeah if you drilled to far you are SOL
.40 for points O.o my 103 is .18 are you sure .40....
Well the point gap is .40 stock, Im wondering if it needs to be changed for the new cylinder, as changing the point gap on these bikes changes the timing. Conceivably I would want to advance it slightly with a larger cylinder, hence more mixture in there (I think?).
The intake port is drilled 18mm deep (yes, drill press), then expanded sideways with a file, where there is more room on the pad for modification.
I will compare the cranks this weekend and see how they compare. The race crank LOOKS like it will at least stay open significantly longer than stock, can't tell if it opens earlier or not without comparing and some measurement. Ill let you guys know.
I don't think the racing crank will open earlier it may be smoother so it spins easier and doesn't have that sharper ends. The reason i say this is becuase a lot of those crank shafts go with the polini or malossi side draft carbs and if you used a shaved crank on there it messes shit up.
And i havn't messed with the points on my ciao yet so i prob shouldnt' talk about it haha
what crank do you have? i got the top one and the duration is exactly the same as stock, gonna have to cut it.
Ah, maciek, I do have the TOP one....well, I'll be grinding then! Have you cut yours yet? What'd you use, any tips?
it seems the best bet is to use the dremel metal cutting disk and shave it off. I suggest buying the diaomed ones becuase the pressed stone will grind down really fast.
Or you could take the really long route and use a file. Sand it down on the end. This is all from what i have read i haven't done it yet i want to.
Read the wiki on it. Each kit suggest different degrees of cutting. I don't really understand were you measure the degree at but yea.
Degrees are measured 360 around the crankshaft. My kit calls for the valve to open 5 degrees earlier and remain open 10 degrees longer than stock. Guess its time to grind!
grind away, Be careful though fuck it up and you need a new crank
Also mike, just thinkin, if you know how many degrees your crank needs to change, you can convert that to an actual measurement by figuring out how long X degrees is at Y distance from the center of the crank.
According to this page:
http://vespa-ciao.nl/forums.php?m=posts&q=7347
if my dutch is correct, divide the number of degrees by 1.64 to get the equivalent outer edge length in mm to grind. So if I need to open mine up 10 degrees, I measure 6.1mm around the edge from the stock opening, and grind that away.
nice
I measured mine and the intake timing and duration it matches the kinetic stock crank mm for mm, i plan to use a dremel and a grinder.
are you sure it's degrees? i asked this before and was told it was milimeters, both my kit's instructions say according to the measurements in the diagram, but don't say if it's mm or degrees, but everything else is in mm, and it would be much easier for the customer to measure, so i'm pretty sure it's in mms.
top does make different cranks tho, stuffed, etc.
also thinking about protecting the con rod bearings with a plastic bag sealed with walgreens silly putty, kind of like when port matching without cracking the case open.
I'm pretty sure that its mm and not degrees. You should head over to the vespa-ciao.nl site and ask them. Those guys can answer most any vespa performance question and they are friendly as hell. Theres an English section in the forum.
i've heard both go ask the dutch guys.
Looking at my papers again, if they re to scale, it looks like mm on this one.
I compared my 10mm TOP racing crank with my stock Vespa crank and it is already cut. It is cut just like the Malossi instructions 5mm earlier opening and 10mm later closing. I'll take pictures tomorrow and post them.
See, I compared my TOP crank to the stock one, and it's cut, but only about 1mm and 2mm on each side. I cut 4 and 8 out and the bike runs great, so I would say go ahead and cut. I havent had her up to WOT yet (only 20 miles on the kit), but at 1/2 throttle Im doing an indicated nearly 40 and it feels like it has lots of room left, so I'd say compare to the stock crank and if it looks similar, cut away.
hmm where did you get your cranks? i got mine from Frederick in europe before they were available here really. prolly just a different model than what became available here recently.
James, how did you protect the rod bearings during cutting? it sounds like it worked out well.
Yeah, I wish I had taken an after picture. It did work out quite well, though theres only 20 miles like I said, so we'll see. I wrapped the main crank bearing in duct tape before the cut and used about a half a can of carb cleaner afterwards to blow it out from every angle just in case.
I bought my crank from TreatsHQ. Like I said, it was cut a bit wider than stock, but not much. If I had been real precise I would have figured the exact angles it was cut to and gone from there, but I just went with the 10mm and 5mm Malossi recommends minus 20% for the slightly wider open the TOP had to begin with.
So far I am extremely happy with the setup. I bought the crank and Malossi 64 as a package, and put them together as such, plus drilling the intake the extra .5mm at the same time, so I can't speak to exactly what gave what kind of boost, but the bike feels FAST now. I should be doing short WOT runs within a couple days, and I'll let you know, though I guarantee my speedo will be buried (did that even before this last round of mods), so I'll have to get a pace car.
The TOP crank seemed to be extremely high quality when I was examining it before installation, other than rough cheek work (does anyone care about that?). The forged arm as opposed to the cast stock one, and the needle bearings for the wrist pin, and the enhanced oiling ports on the rod bearing should make the crank more reliable at the higher rpms and stresses the kit will be putting out.
The Malossi 64 kit is the shit, plain and simple. The port work is mind-boggling, including an extra transfer port with no case-work involved (I did do light case work on the two existing ones). The rings also look like serious business, in that they are about 1mm wide but several mm across, basically racing rings (a thin but broad profile pushes rpms-before-ring-flutter substantially higher than stock rings). Combine that with a highly forgiving cast iron cylinder for $160, and it's a sweet deal. It came with a high compression head that I did not install because it had no place for the decomp cable to seat, and I really wouldnt want to pedal this thing without the decomp. I might put the head on my Ciao. Overall, though, the kit is worth every penny assuming it holds up, and the crank should be too.
Here is a scan of my tracing of both cranks. I lined up the flat on the long side of the crank to be parallel with the flat side of the cardboard and traced each crank. This isn't 100% accurate but you can see that my crank is very close to the Malossi specs. I got my crank and 64cc Malossi kit from Treats. Perhaps Benji has more than one type of TOP crank or the Kinetic crank might be slightly different than my Vespa crank.
huh, fascinating. If it werent such a pain I would go pull the engine and take a picture or tracing of the ground TOP one.
Yeah, it's 5 and 10 millimeters. I cut my stock crank with some diamond bits and it took a while because the metal is soo hard. I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes because I did everything at once.
James you should see the polini 64cc kit, it's just as interesting...
after reading this i feel like my DR kit is not that great haha
Nah man, I almost bought the DR just cause its cheap and it was my first kit. Still got a few miles left til Ill go WOT, but I'll let you guys know how it goes. Mike, come to Bomb Prom and we can play compare and despair with our kits.
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