Tomos A55 high-speed tuning

I've been trying to figure out why my moped sometimes runs very smooth at full throttle, an other times runs with a coarse sound (more noise, more vibration). Here are some excerpts from a previous string:

"That’s what I’m trying to figure out. I have a new LX, all stock, and it seems to be on the ragged edge of 4-stroking. Sometimes it runs great, with a smooth WAAAAAAAAA sound, and sometimes it has a harsh tone and more vibration. I ran it at WOT for a mile with the harsh tone, then immediately checked the plug—it was brown. Can anyone tell me what actually causes 4-stroking? Is it a mixture too lean, or too rich, or either?"

"i did this (increase jet size) to mine and didnt notice any difference other than a major top speed increase. also, mine does the same thing, sometimes it rides smooth, others it vibrates like crazy."

"No, I’m not confused about the idle speed screw. It’s got kind of a knurled knob on it so you can turn it with your fingers. And it has exactly the effect you would expect. The mixture screw is slightly recessed and is next to the carb air inlet. But I’m still not fully satisfied with the bike’s tuning. It’s all stock, with about 550 km on the odometer. I thought I had it pretty good, then this afternoon I took it out for a long ride—32 miles round trip. It ran great for the first 10 miles or so—cruised fast and smooth at wide open throttle. Then it developed some extra vibration, made more of a coarse roaring sound (perhaps most of which was coming from the intake) and lost about 3 or 4 MPH. Got to the destination, ate dinner, and then started back home. Again, it ran great at first, then repeated the symptoms. When this happens, it seems like the bike will run well for quite a distance, but upon slowing down for an intersection or a turn, it will develop the vibration as I accelerate back to top speed, and then it won’t settle down until the bike has been parked for a while. On the return trip, I stopped twice and turned the adjustment screw in (clockwise) about 1/8 turn each time, to no effect."

I’d really like to get it to run fast and smooth consistently. Any suggestions? It's a stock Tomos 2008 LX.

Re: Tomos A55 high-speed tuning

mine does this too. it did this stock, it did it with a bi-turbo and 58 jet, and now it does it with a 70cc kit and a 60 jet. reguardless how i set it up, it still vibrates as you have described. my friends with their streetmates dont have this problem... a little light on this matter would be GREAT!

Re: Tomos A55 high-speed tuning

I thought my stock Streetmate ran kinda ragged on the top end at times. It would surge like it was hitting a governor. I attributed this to the normal restriction of the stock intake, exhaust, and porting. I have a Airsal kit, bigger carb and biturbo on it now and it flat out screams. I am running 27T front and 24T rear sprockets. I am getting 80 MPG and it cruises nice and easy at 35 now and will easily go past 40 on the speedo.

Re: Tomos A55 high-speed tuning

where does the air box feed out of? maybe the air is warming up with the engine, and running you rich? i dunno, but you should change the rear sprocket asap! that the main resriction over the whole bike.

i have a 2008 streetmate R with no poblems like that.

speed kit(waiting for bigger jets.)

technigas

24? rear sprocket

Air-Sal piston port kit.

Tomos A55 high-speed tuning

The way the air box is set up, it's unlikely that it could be getting hot air. But I do think the bike runs better when it's cold outside.

More details on symptoms

I cleaned the carb. It had no signs of crud, but I wanted to be sure. It was a warm afternoon today, and it didn't run as well as yesterday in the cold. I rode into town, a distance of 4 miles, and couldn't run at full throttle because of the vibration. The best speed I could make on the inbound trip was about 32 on the speedo. It was vibrating and making a roaring sound at full throttle; sounded like some kind of resonance maybe in the airbox. Also, I think the exhaust also had a harsh resonance that isn't there when the engine runs well. Yesterday, I blasted for about 10 miles with the engine running great, and holding a steady 39 on the speedo. Tomos MPH : ) Really powered up some long and steep hills, seldom dropping below 34. Yesterday. Today I was dismayed as it bogged down to less than 30 on a smaller hill. But then, on the last leg of the return trip, it slipped back into good running -- I slowed for the last corner, and as I opened up the throttle again, it quieted down and took off -- sounded quiet and smooth and held steady at 39. Wish I could figure this out. It sounds so crappy when it's running bad -- kind of surges with the throttle backed off, and makes that roaring, vibrating ride at near full throttle. It's only got 600 miles on it, and has been meticulously cared for since new. I figure, if a machine runs right some of the time, it can be made to run right all the time, if I could only figure out what the cause is, and how it comes and goes. Could it be a sonic resonance phenomenon somewhere in the intake or exhaust system?

Re: More details on symptoms

I have an 07 Arror R and it has a similar problem. It would also cut out going down hill and I could max more than 30mph. I tuned the carb a bit and now its much better. Im hitting 35mph down the same hill now. Its still a bit slow for my taste on a flat road (28mph). My carb kit and biturbo should be here on monday, hope it helps.

Re: More details on symptoms

Sounds like it is running rich, try running it without the airbox just to see if it runs better. If it does then get a few smaller main jets and try them with the airbox back in place.

Re: Tomos A55 high-speed tuning

When it is cold the air is denser so the air fuel ratio is leaner. By removing the airbox you will be simulating a leaner mixture. It will take you 30 seconds to try it or you can fumble around all you want try and try something else.

Re: Tomos A55 high-speed tuning

Yes, that seems to be the problem. While messing with the airbox, I amputated the little right-angle inner air tube that was inside the box . . . figured it was either a restrictor or a noise suppressor. I also enlarged the opening where air feeds from the airbox to the carb. This mod seems to have greatly reduced the high speed vibration. And the engine is running faster, but it still might be borderline rich. It surges some at full throttle. Next step will be to try downsizing the jet a step or two.

Re: More details on symptoms

i modded my airfilter that way too, i cant say i remember if it helped a lot or not, but it still vibrates like crazy, more so than it should. right now i'm running it slightly lean and it still vibrates as much as it did when i ran it rich and perfect (coffee/brown). what kind of carb tuning did you say you did? what are those screws on the side, near the venturi for? so far all of my plastics except for the leftside electrical cover have vibrated cracks into it and broke off.

Re: Tomos A55 high-speed tuning

you are on the right path now

Re: Tomos A55 high-speed tuning

You are still in the break-in period. Make sure you don't drive WOT for extended periods, and vary your throttle regularly while driving. After you get a full 500 miles then you can start tinkering around. I got rid of a lot of vibration by making sure my chain was the proper tension. Yours will stretch a little while breaking in. Start simple. Make sure your spark plug is gapped right, and learn how to do plug chops. Next check to make sure the 2 bolts fastening the intake manifold are good and tight. When I got mine one had vibrated loose, and the air leak was causing some problems. Next check the air box, and make sure it is properly fastened to the carb. I had that issue right out of the moped shop, again the air leak will cause issues. Get some hands on help from a fellow mopeder, or mechanic to learn how to read your plug chops, and tune your carb. Good luck.

Re: More details on symptoms

The screw that sticks out, so you can turn it with your fingers, is the idle speed adjustment.

The screw that is set down into a little socket, toward the air intake end of the carb, is the idle mixture screw. If you take it out, you'll see that it has a tapered end. If you don't know where it should be set, turn it all the way in, then back it out 1-1/2 turns; adjust from there for the best idle.

Re: Tomos A55 high-speed tuning

i've tried all that, i properly broke it in for the first 300 miles, kept my chain taught, one of my intake screws also vibrated out and i fixed that right away, i checked the timing, tried different spark plugs, different jets, different airfilters, different exausts, different oils, more oil, less oil, just about everything i can think of except for putting rubber washers on the engine mounts (when i went to try it, they wouldn't between the frame and the engine). my idles fine tho....i guess thats a plus?

Re: Tomos A55 high-speed tuning

Evan -- what does your Tomos dealer say about the vibration?

Re: Tomos A55 high-speed tuning

within the first three months of having it, i brought it back to the dealer 6 times, i had all sorts of problems, also i told him about my vibrations everytime. he said theres nothing he can do about it, but the dealer i went to is semi retarded (told me to put my airsal piston in with the dome facing in towards the crank). i did some research to see if there was a lemon law, and according to the lemon law for cars and motorcycles, you have to return to the dealer 3 times before its considered a lemon, i told my dealer i went 6 times, we had it on record, but he said "no, your not eligible because its just a moped, i can't fix your problem" soo...i walked away with a sore ass.

Re: Tomos A55 high-speed tuning

While waiting for a carb jets to arrive, I rigged up a low-restriction air filter. It eliminated the surging, but is so noisy! Wow, that air box does contain the intake noise pretty well. Any ideas how to futher de-restrict the airbox without raising the noise level so much? I took out the right-angle rubber snorkel tube and enlarged the hole through the grommet already -- helped some, without adding much noise. I'm concerned that simply drilling holes in the airbox will let too much noise out!

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