tuning a dellorto phbg 21mm racing type

i just put this on my bike the other day and i have some trouble with it. between you and my helpful fellow creatures i want to get to know this beautiful "black devil" in and out, so i can master it completely!

I think I'm 4stroking at 1/3 open throttle with an 108 main jet. I have the tuning manual which is helpful but quite a steep learning curve for someone as nontechnical as I am.

it starts from first kick, idles beautifully. tonight i will do a leak test and will check the plug.

if any of you went through this and found a good "recipe" on how to tune these carbs, I'd love to pick your brains.

oh, it's on a puch 1speed with polini.

Thanks!!!

Monica.

Re: tuning a dellorto phbg 21mm racing type

I would first start by lowering the needle one notch. then if its still rich adjust with the mixture screw on the side of the carb.

Re: tuning a dellorto phbg 21mm racing type

) Cupermcnewbster ( /

Are you running the malossi or polini reeds? Also what pipe.

I have a polini, malossi, racing 21 phbg and a simonini and its running a 100 jet which seems almost right, I might need to step down to a 98 as it seems there is hesitation between 3/4 and WOT.

So you might be running a little rich or you have an air leak somewhere.

Re: tuning a dellorto phbg 21mm racing type

dont adjust the mixture screw, that is only for FIRST 1/4 not last. dont drop the needle, that is a last thing for middle and a bit of top, drop your jet sizes, and keep dropping them, one step at a time, that is exactly the portion of the throttle that the main jet controls, last 1/4

unless the racing one has one extra top end tuning knob.

AIR LEAK TEST FIRST.

NOTHING YOU DO WILL MATTER IF YOU HAVE A LEAK

Re: tuning a dellorto phbg 21mm racing type

david is right about the air leak but totally wrong about the main jet. as you can see in the diagram below.... the main jet starts functionality about 1/3 of the way through but doesnt become truly effective till 1/2 throttle. if you are having issues at 1/3 throttle the best thing you can do is to adjust the needle setting. "lowering the needle" by "raising" the clip up one position makes the the gas flow leaner in the low to mid throttle range. its tapered so when the needle is 1/4 to 3/4 of the way out, the angle of taper is what determines how much gas can escape through your mainjet. Once you reach WOT the amount of gas is completely controlled by the main jet. actually there is one other element to the equation. the air/mixture screw. look at the chart see how it is moderately effective all the way through? that is because it uses a separate jet which also sucks fuel that doesnt have a needle. the adjustable screw thats flush with the carb body controls it. by turning that counterclockwise you will let a minute amount of more gas flow in to the system, by tightening it you will cut that off. so you can make minute adjustments by using the screw or major ones by changing the jet.

wow, i've never typed that all out at once, shits crazy.

oops diagram

Re: oops diagram

who cares how it runs it 1/3 throttle. Who uses that. WOT all the time!

;)

Re: oops diagram

Re: oops diagram

sorry posted pic in wrong thread

Re: oops diagram

polini reeds and an estoril pipe. Right now I have crazy awesome low end and fucking shitty top end, not to say it almost dies when i try to go WOT for a few seconds. On a side note, it's amazing to feel how different the reactions are at different throttle openings. With a bing, it was always the same.

I downjetted last night from 108 to 106 and it already felt better. I'm just afraid to downjet too much, so I don't get too lean.

Needle adjustment: some people say I should change the needle, others are completely against.. I keep hearing conflicting information which confuses me even more.

Re: oops diagram

) Cupermcnewbster ( /

down jet more!

I ran mine with an estoril and a 100 jet, and only really started to hit the top end well when we were riding back from the city and it was in the upper 30s (leaned it out). Don't be afraid to get it tuned right and make it rip. Way too rich is lame, a little rich is better.

Re: oops diagram

1/3 throttle is absolutely where the needle comes into play.

with that racing carb its super quick to change. way faster than down and upjettting.

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if you want to know the dell'Ortho carby inside out then its time to do some reading of the manuals. if you dont have them then get them here

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/dellorto.htm

but you need a pdf thing and better then dialup or beleive me it will take all evening to download the manuals.

Re: oops diagram

"Needle adjustment: some people say I should change the needle, others are completely against.. I keep hearing conflicting information which confuses me even more."

that is because first you said "I think I’m 4stroking _at_ 1/3 open throttle", but did not mention trouble at full throttle. this would mean the main jet is fine and is exactly where dropping the needle would help.

now that you have mentioned that you have "fucking shitty top end, not to say it almost dies when i try to go WOT for a few seconds." we know that it's rich at WOT as well, which means you do need to drop the main jet.

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..drop the main jet first, then once you get to the correct main jet for WOT, you may or may not need to adjust the needle if there are still problems around mid throttle.

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i just re-read the whole manual last night and it says you first adjust the needle for 3/4 throttle, then the final adjustment is the main jet for WOT... then maaaaybe readjust the needle notch setting just to make sure you're not too lean. Would that be correct?

anyway, thanks guys for all your answers! I did the carb cleaner test and yey! no air leaks!

Re: oops diagram

oh one more q (and yes I know it's a stupid girlie question, but I'm so new to this)...

there are 4 needle settings: if you are at the lowest setting (needle high), does it mean you are lean? (less mixture flows up?) and if the needle is set to the highest notch, then you are rich? is that correct? just double checking...

Re: oops diagram

^^^^^^^^ no, just the oppsite. if the needle is at its lowest setting, it allows very little fuel from the main jet. if its at the highest then it allows more fuel (richer) it does get a bit confusing. the bottom setting brings the needle up=more fuel, the top setting drops the needle = less fuel (the main jet stays 'plugged' longer if you will)

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lowest setting = little fuel = lean?

isn't that exactly what i said? why the opposite?

(by lowest setting I mean the lowest notch) man, I am confused.

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Think of the clip as being stationary and the needle moving up and down along it like a window sash. The higher it is the more open and therefore rish, the lower it is the less open and therefore lean.

Top clip setting, leanest.

Bottom clip setting, richest.

Standard, second from top.

I wouldn't mess with your needle until you've gotten the main jet figured out and have set your idle. Elliot seized his polini by leaning out his needle.

Re: tuning a dellorto phbg 21mm racing type

Does anyone know which brass fitting on the 19mm race model is for the oil injection hose. It has 2 small ones, one on the top of the spout that goes in the intake and one on the side of the carb body. Thanks

Re: tuning a dellorto phbg 21mm racing type

it's the one on top near where the coupler goes

Re: tuning a dellorto phbg 21mm racing type

I'm going to piggyback onto monica's thread since we're trying to do the same thing. I just bought a maxi with the 80cc airsal kit, dellorto phbg 21mm race carb, k&n filter, and am trying to get it running correctly (I'm new to mopeds). it came from a totally different altitude/climate (OR) compared to where I am at in SF so I think everything is out of whack.

right now it has an 85 main jet and a w7 needle set at the top clip point. it seems to run really rich all over, but being new to mopeds I don't have anything to compare it with feeling wise. I pulled the plug (just after rev'ing it in the garage) and the electrode looked decent but the threads of the plug were wet and oily.

does anyone know what jet I should start with? is the w7 the stock needle that comes with the carb? I also have a w9 and some assorted jets to play with if I knew what the rough starting point should be.

Re: tuning a dellorto phbg 21mm racing type

Start from your largest jet and work your way down if its rich. 85 sounds small for your setup but things are different on your coast.

Re: tuning a dellorto phbg 21mm racing type

I stepped down to a 38 idle jet (from a 40), set the w7 needle on the 2nd clip point from the top, and played with the idle mixture and speed screws. it idles pretty well now and seems more peppy up to 1/4 throttle or so. as soon as I give it some juice though it completely bogs down and will even stall. any ideas? I spoke with treats and they thought the 85 main jet would be perfect for this setup.

Re: tuning a dellorto phbg 21mm racing type

Sounds like an air leak causing a lean condition. Though, 85 still sounds small for a 80cc. I run a 98-100 on a 67cc with a 21mm though currently I don't run an air filter.

Re: tuning a dellorto phbg 21mm racing type

yeah I guess that's why I am confused, since monica and I live in the same city and she is running 106. I don't know, treats said 85 was spot on. I'll try going to a bigger main jet for the heck of it and see what happens. how do I test for an air leak?

Re: tuning a dellorto phbg 21mm racing type

Take starter fluid and spray it on all the surfaces that meet while the engine is running. One spot at a time, and it doesn't take much. If the engine bogs and/or dies then you have an air leak. Fix the leaks before trying to jet correctly.

Though, I would imagine you should be closer to this Monica's jetting.

Re: tuning a dellorto phbg 21mm racing type

I put a 95 in today and it didn't seem much better. if I had an air leak, wouldn't the motor keep running if I screwed the mixture adjustment all the way tight? I did this, and the motor dies, as it should. the bike seems to rev up fine on the kickstand but as soon as I try and ride it's slow with no power and will bog and die out if I gun it. ideas?

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