i think theres a bearing place somewhere in denver and i was thinking i might have some real nice bearings made for the ZA50 so it doesnt seize on me.
Ive got my own ideas on what Id change but what about you guys?
And what do you think theyll run price wise?
well...
What bearings on the za50 are you referring to?
Sorry, most likely the ones in the side cover..
the stock ones shouldnt ever sieze unless they are shimmed wrong or that reverse thread nut is loose.
So, you'll walk into the bearing house and say "hey, would you guys make ome custom bearings to go on here? I need two!"
So with the tooling costs, machinist's time, etc., should only be a couple thousand each.
Somewhat related here - But I've milled/drilled many a motorcycle case to accept standard roller bearings if that's what you're after . Some metrics are real hard to find especially the OD. so usually milling out the hole say a half a mm or so to the next size allows a $10 open double roller vs a $35 OE ball (Montesa or Silver Pidgeon engine ) If the original bearing is available why reinvent the wheel for thousands like the last post stated??
The originial bearings arent available (no one has them, if you know where let me know), and these particular bearings are known to be prone to failure. If I can match the ID and I may be able to drill the case for a larger OD.
PS - I wanted to discuss a better design, so bert you can take a hike or add something constructive.
What are the dimensions on the stock bearings? ID, OD, W
There is a good bit of material that can be removed from the cases if you need to use a bearing with a larger OD.
Bret is just being realistic. If you want custom made to order bearings you will be paying out the ass, if they would even coincider making em.
those bearings are prone to failure cause people dont know what they are doing when they pull apart a ZA50.
^no, that is not why they are prone to failure.
chris, money isnt a concern. i can get most of it machined for free and my buddy who is a lockheed martin mechanical engineer is willing to help with the whole thing as well.
you will not be making bearings with better quality/life than stock ones. bearing surfaces aren't so much machined as they are ground (to a very tight tolerance). also the heat treat is quite imporatant.
if you want something better, try to find bearings with a better ABEC rating (or equiv) that fit. or adapt the case to accept something with a better rating.
ex-boeing engineer
the bearings in the za are above the oil line, so if they sit for awhile, they will corrode, i've torn down two engines like this, out of the 5 za50's ive ever worked on. The bearings are available, one of the guys in our crew just got new ones a couple weeks ago, i'll have to ask him where he got them.
Ive never seen better bearings than ...austrian/steyr....If you run ATF in a radical two speed you will have problems. Ive been running 5-20 full synthetic overfilled (up to the bearings) for a couple years with good results even with tweeked big metra.
Phil - What MPH do you run on AVG? Couple years sounds promising.
Mobyman - i would REALLY appreciate it. please find out.
This is going to be a long post...The way to make a two speed live with a kit is you have to make sure your trans is right from the beginning...the two weak points in the two speed is the one way clutch (sprag) if those rollers are at all scored or galled they should not be used or if the roller nut is scored or galled get a good one. This happens because at some point the trans was run low on oil...side case bearings suffer from this too...the other weak point is the urethane pucks in the drive gear when those get sloppy they let the trans hammer itself to death...when you take off from a stand still the sprag rollers are loaded and if you run a lot of power that sprag is really under a heavy load...so it is good to give the bike a hard push out of the hole to help that sprag live next is to take that drive gear apart and get some new urathane pucks ...ive used hard plastic ,shoe goo every thing...rigid uses epoxy and heater hose tried that worked ok ...for a little while problem is when it starts to go the trans starts to chatter and should stop riding the bike or you will hurt it. Another thing is when the bike is about ready to shift, blip the throttle and let it shift don't let it power shift that pounds those rubber pucks. ATF turns thin as water when it gets hot rollers and sprags can,t live in that...0-15 or 5-20 full synthetic is what we use.The pinto that I ran in Kzoo shifted at 40+plus cruises 60+plus that motor is still goin strong in my friends maxi...hope this helps Merry Christmas...philo
phil, is the fastest man in america. on a moped.
thats interesting about the oil... i was told that motor oil shouldn't be used in ATF applications mostly because of the friction modifiers being different. perhaps the extra slippryness in the clutch drums helps as well.
Yes there are times you don't want to use motor oil in ATF applications ,back in the early 90s ford mustangs came with ATF in the stick shift trans!!! everybody would make the mistake of putting gear oil in them and they would not shift right but the ATF would not protect the gears and bearings...the fix was 30 wt motor oil with modified gear stops (synchros) and those transmission would last way longer than straight ATF which was used for less drag and better mileage...I think if a puch trans relied on hydraulic pressure like a automatic car trans does, things would be different, motor oil would not work to good. On my tomos I put some slick 50 trans goo in there and it helped that thing alot ...The clutches are going to shred it just a matter of prolonging it...Need better friction material than cork!!! Ha Ha... Kevlar ??? $$$$.......Philo
i'm working with a shop in town on re-lining puch pads with a tougher material, its pretty cheap and easy. I'm sure a tomos could be lined with 'asbestos' or whatever they use nowadays. The clutch and brake dude said that they had stuff that made puch clutch material look like cork.
heh.
Oversized bearings is crazy - most of these have massive load ranges, and rpm ranges higher than anything a little 2-stroke engine is going to put out.
CRAP! - Put 17x40 bearing in he search field on the above link.
Graham. please let me know how that works out. I have been going through clutches like crazy.
Would something like this work alright?
Description: Angular Contact Ball Bearings - Double Row - Explorer Series ABEC-3 Inside Diameter: 17.00 mm Outside Diameter: 1.57 In., 40.00 mm Width: 0.69 In. Dynamic Load Capacity: 14300 Static Load Capacity: 8800 Inner Ring Width: 17.5 In. Style: Open
Inside Diameter (mm): 17mm
Outside Diameter (Decimal Inch): 1.5700"
Outside Diameter (mm): 40mm
Width (Decimal Inch): .6900"
Dynamic Load Capacity (Pounds): 14300
Static Load Capacity (Pounds): 8800
Inner Ring Width (Decimal Inch): 17.5000"
Style: Open
Maximum RPM: 15000
the bearings in your ZA50 are referred to as c3 fitment bearings. this rating refers to the "play" or tolerance that the bearing is manucfatured to...
hence a c1 fitment bearing runs extremely tight and is nat made for applications that the bearing will heat up and expand and then seize
c3 is the fitment that you have on all your internal bearings and is the most common bearing type used in almost everything made
for my peugeot 103 project i called a local bearing shop, just by using the yellow pages and asked them to make ame a hybrid ceramic bearing.
hybrid refers to the fact that the outer and inner races are still made of steel the balls are silicon nitride and the carrier is either plastic, steel or ceramic
for a high quality European made SKF or FAG steel bearing in a common type 6203 for example should cost you retail anywhere from 7-20 bucks.
the ceramic hybrids i had made for me have a 20k max RPM and about 3 times the life and half the rolling resistance of a steel bearing. they cost me about $60 a piece and it took the shop 2 weeks to get the materials and make them
i got mine from Bearing Depot
these guys are no bullshit, call them with exactly the bearing numbers that you need and the fitment you want (c3) and you wont have any issues. they wont crosss reference anything, so you just need to know what you want.
fi you guys have any more questions you can call me at my shop
732 635 0094
ask for matthew
local heroes over and out
If the bearings don't get lubbed, can't you install double sealed bearings of the same (stock) size?
Great post Matt!
How have they been? Are you running a kitted engine?
I used them before in a puch but the current project is not togeather yet.
im not a huge fan of the full ceramic bearings do to the fact that they cannot take any later side loads, thats why i go with the hybrids. they are the dope shit
later = lateral
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