Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

Well I think I am going to give in and finally purchase a Dellorto for my 50V. First of all I would like to know where I can get one for the lowest price (I was thinking 1977mopeds.com?) Also which size would work as I have the stock long bendy intake on my fast Moby. I was thinking 15.15?

Here is the link.

http://www.1977mopeds.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22_73&products_id=465

I have never played around with jetting so I would not know which jet to buy. Would this fit on my bendy intake or what modifications need to be done (would I need to buy a new intake?), overall is it a fairly straightforward upgrade?

Then another matter, I would like to port my Motobecane and I would not like to mess with timing so I would follow the diagram on the wiki but only increase the width of the intake and exhaust? I have these tools in the picture below, I am thinking the one on the right would do the job?

Now, what is an attainable top speed with these upgrades. I would like to also say that my Moby has the smaller rear sprocket, call me foolish but low 40's?

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

get the 15:15, with the cable choke. it fits the bendy intake just fine. i just bought one from '77 and it was shipped super quick. you may also want to get one of those high flow air filters they have too. it comes with a 68 jet but you'll want to jet it somewhere between 56-60 stock depending on whether or not you get that filter and stuff.

as far as porting, you'll want to raise the exhaust a little too. its not going to hurt anything and it will be necessary to gain the most power from the motor. the porting instructions in the wiki suggest 3mm, so go with that. changing the intake port as specified by the article in the wiki will increase the intake duration (or the time that the intake port is open) and that is a good thing, and will allow you to make the most of the larger carb and what not.

gearing: its not really a good thing to ditch the stock gearing with a variator. using a larger sprocket up front, or smaller one in back keeps the motor out of its powerband too much of the time and kills low end and makes the bike take forever to reach top speed. go 11/54. low 40s is definitely attainable, even with the stock exhaust.

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

The details posted in the wiki are not polite suggestions, it is a recipe that works. with a 2 stroke the mods work in harmony so if you decide to do part and not the rest you will not get optimum results and may even get something too boggy.

Raising the exhaust is definately worthwhile on mobys. i neva use stones for porting because they load with aluminum then they shatter when they get hot while grinding. use metal tips in your dremel and also get some rifflers once you get most of the material removed. go slow on the material but let your dremel reach speed before touching the material because if the bit grabbs and kicks the dremel it might do the dance of death all around bouncing off the walls of the cylinder.

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

"here":http://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Motobecane_porting is the wiki entry I made on porting.

The bits I like to use are the tungsten carbide cutting bits. They're a little pricey, but they won't load up with aluminum like wari says. They also come in a lot of sizes and the smaller ones allow me to get into the transfer passages to open them up.

I do my cleanup with the little sandpaper bits that come with every dremel kit.

I'm sure everybody has their own methods, but these two work the best for me.

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

I edited the wiki to note that working the transfers (passages not windows) can be particularly beneficial.

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

And by "working the transfers do you mean widening, polishing, or ?

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

Tungsten Carbide dremel bits are great for this kind of work, but be careful, as they can remove a lot of metal really really fast. You may have to stop periodically and scrape the aluminum leavins from between the teeth with a screw driver. Also, if you have a variable speed rotary tool, use a low speed for hacking aluminum.

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

and ALWAYS put a little radius on the edges of the port, even if you are not doing any port mods it is worthwhile to extend the life of the rings and ensure sealing. you neva want a sharp edge on the port, the sharp edges are there stock because of manufacturing costs. also put a radius on the bottom of the piston skirt while you have the cylinder off.

dip your carbide bits in grease first and use slow speed the grease will hold most of the little metal chips. you have to flush all the cylinder LOTS after machining to make sure there are zero metal chips that are left behind on the cylinder cause that can give you a very bad day.

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

I've found that if you apply some cutting oil(or ever the teflon tri-flow stuff) the cutting bits won't load up with aluminum, and it will cut way faster.

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

port that bitch yo

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

How about this, a new suggestion, would a Ninja G3 performance exhaust and the 15.15 Dellorto get me anywhere on an all stock engine non-ported? Also would the 15.15 fit on the stock short intake on a fast Moby? I think I can handle that better, just mounting an exhaust and carb, rather than port work which for me I am kind of scared if I screw up badly...

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

This is kind of a bump, what can I expect with an all stock bike except the addition of a Ninja G3 performance exhaust and 15.15 Dellorto? Speedwise of course. Is the 15.15 the best one to get for that setup, would it fit on stock short intake for fast moby, and do I have to mess with timing at all? (one of my fears).

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

Just learn to time the thing. Its just like when you learned to tie your shoelace

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

I've heard that the ninja doesn't give much of a performance boost without a kit. It does sound awesome though.

Steve, when I say "work the transfers," I mean widening and polishing. Make them bigger!... but not too big!

haha.

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

Eric,

For those of us who don't already have the fast cylinder, do you know the final dimensions of the ports in this diagram?

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

Nope, and I only use that as a rough guide. I found those pictures from something Bret posted and used them to make a general porting entry.

If you're going to not mess with the timing, you should mostly widen the port windows. Don't go up or down with the transfers at all. You can go up with the exhaust and down with the intake without effecting timing. Working the ramps is a big thing, too. Make the transfer ramps huge. There's like 6mm to play with in there and last night Rafter said that he's not done until he can fit his thumb in there (that might be extreme). Then match that to the case.

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

My current setup is with a 15.15 sha with the high flow filter from 77's and a ninja G3. The port work described in the wiki does net very serious gains in performance but needs to be handled well. Also you need to freshen the whole motor when you do it because it will start coming apart at speed. I highly suggest following the port timings on the wiki, with 1.5mm timing instead of the 2.0 from the factory.

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

Good point. Advancing your timing to 1.5 is nice. They say that anywhere between 1.5 and 2 is acceptable, but advanced is much more fun.

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

1.5mm from 2.0mm BTDC would be retarded timing

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

dremil tools are fun to play with

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

errr... BTDC owell, you know what I mean, but yea, its only a different of about 4 degrees I think.

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

Jesse, 1.5 to 2 Mm BTDC would be ADVANCED timing - the spark is going just BEFORE the piston gets to TDC. If you RETARD the timing it is happening after TDC and you're wasting the power of the explosion, hence bikes with retarded timing running really weak.

Advancing timing gives more power, until you get to the point where it is TOO early and you start blowing up the piston.

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

_dremil tools are fun to play with_

I have a knockoff Rotary tool I got at Home Depot a few years ago to work on my son's Pinewood Derby car for Cub Scouts. I know it's not a Dremel but wonder if it would be servicable to do a port job.

I'm sure it didn't come with the metalworking bits needed to to do, plus I wouldn't want to just start working on a good cylinder and case as my training lab. Anyone have any videos that they've produced, or helpful guides for a noob (but fairly handy one) at this?

The info in this thread has been helpful. How do you radius the port edge - is there a similar bit to a roundover bit in woodworking?

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

"Rotary tools are fun to play with"

I like to do port edges with a hand file. There's a jewelers file set at my shop.

I think i'm right that 1.5 btdc is more advanced and 2.0btdc is more retarded. I've been running it over in my head to make certain...?

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

No, the further you go BEFORE TDC, the more you are advancing the timing! i.e. You're having it spark IN ADVANCE of TDC. 1.5mm BTDC is closer to the top than 2mm BTDC - hence it is more retarded. Make sense?

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

hmm...don't you do timing by degrees not mm? How do you know that your plug is firing 2 mm before top dead center?

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

with an allen wrench and a ruler

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

Put something in the spark plug hole and measure back 2mm. Since you remove the flywheel from motobecanes when you access the timing cam, it's easier by this method.

I like to turn a spark plug upside-down and measure using the letters in NGK B6HS. I've found that the letters are about 2.5 to 3mm tall, so i measure from 3/4 to 1/2way down the B, using a cylinder fin as a sight guide.

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

Here's a nice link to a recent pictorial showing exactly how to set the timing to 2mm BTDC.

http://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/discuss/6/105447/105447/

It's referred to in mm and not degrees here because you'ree actually using a ruler to tell when the piston is 2mm BTDC.

This method really worked slick to let me know EXACTLY where the timing should be, and it also reinforced that you can quickly time a Moby with just an allen wrench by bringing the pisotn to TDC and then aligning the holes on the timing cam (with the cam side up) with the axis of the cylinder (or just a scosh left of that). Look at the pictuer where I say it's at TDC, you'll see the alignment on the holes on the cam.

Re: Dellorto and Port Work (Motobecane)

Wow. I am dumb.

I've been using a very nice timing tool and using factory specs anyways.

Thanks for the clarification.

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