what do you think extreme or........
The angles look a bit extreme to me, like the shocks may bend rather than compress. I like the stock location myself.
the shock will not bend ,
the more extreme the angle the more leverage,hence more compression=more flex.
i like the flex i get from the lower angle but i will need to stiffen the adjustable shocks if i run that angle
for optimal damping and spring response, you would want the shocks to travel as much as possible, what you are doing there is decreasing the travel, which will suck for handling. the shocks are designed to have a certain preload, and a certain travel, running them all the way at the far extent of their travel will have negative consequences.
i see what your saying " running them all the way at the far extent of their travel will have negative consequences." but am not at full extent whilst i am sitting on the ped,we can feel the springs works just from sitting on her,she is now insync with the front forks.when i bounce up and down on her she flexes nice!
i took her on a test ride and she handles great! the suspension is flexing with the terrain now.i can fly down the back alleys that are nothing but a series of patched potholes ,the difference is dramatic!
with the heavy duty rear shocks in the stock location i had no flex i could push down on the rear shocks as hard as i could and they would more maybe a 1/4 inch now when i just sit on the ped it compresses .
i still have the stock spring mount if i want to adjust my suspension to the terrain.
more flex=worse handling...suspension rule 101, think ferarri vs. astro van. right now if you sit on it, and it's bouncing around...you're rollin an astro van dude. stiffer springs mean more grip is being put down by the tires. you're going to probably ruin something in the frame, rear wheel axle or shock itsself with them sitting like that
gotta say, please put the pinto tank back on. my .02 cents
i like it. i think you wont be able to have children if u keep that seat though
your right when it comes to cars that race on the street only.this is a moped
i race my ped over rough terrain ,gravel roads,back alleys,trail rideing,off the curb ,off the burms,"they just dont ride like that anymore" lol aleast not around here but we are working on it,been training some of the kids around here.
so any way in my case FLEX = performance
i do run throw the tank on there for long rides but most the time i roll lite.
now if i could just find some hydrolic forks! these EBR suck in the rough stuff.
harold who uses seats? when im flying down the back ally im standing on the peddles.lol.....actually the seat is fairly comfy,im going for the bmx mountain bike look and feel.
The shocks you have are made for 100kg + bikes, like Honda MT/MB etc. so the extra angle would probably do em good.
I would worry about the frame load tho, I've seen weird bends & breaks on projects running shocks near horizontal.
even off road, stiffer suspension is better, just not as comfortable.. too much bounce, and soft spring is bad
yup schihnheilg thats what the problem was the shocks were way too stiff,the stock shocks were too soft,i order the standard shock but they sent me the heavy duty so when i sat on the ped the suspension did not flex now i have the flex i want.
could you explain where the bends and breaks occured? i am very interested.i am thinking that now there will be less stress because the shocks are absorbing the shock like they should .
the frame is now more stronger with the cross brace
Hard suspension dose not a good setup make.
If this was true all race bikes would be rigid. If you watch a motorcycle race you will see the suspension has a lot of travel and is quite supple. The most important part is the actually body of the motorcycle stays as static to the bumps in the road as possible.
coco I like the second setup you had with the less aggressive angle. I have been working on the same thing with magnum forks on a maxi frame. From what I can tell the reason you are getting a better ride is... For the same movement of the swingarm your shock is compression more than if it was at 90 degrease to the force applied. This extra travel smooths out the ride better than with the stock mount location. Yet since the shock travels more distance it will take longer for the shock to fully rebound (since as far as I know you can;t change the rebound of those shocks). If the shock takes too long to fully rebound then you can load the shock to the point where it bottoms out. Lets say you hit a bump and that compresses the shock 25% by the time you hit the next identical bump your shock has only rebounded 15% so now that it has hit 2 of the same bumps it is now compressed 35%.
I'm not saying that it is an issue it all depends on how good of rebound your shock had to start with.
As for the stress, Since the shock is not being compressed in it's intended direction (vertical) there is load created on one wall of the shock. This will cause more wear than if the shock was loaded in the vertical direction. Since moped shocks rarely go bad I think you will be fine though. The only other place to worry about flexing is where the shock is attached to the frame. I would reinforce that area with a few pieces of plate steel welded on.
Go with what works for you.
i think the second setup is aestetically more pleasing, but its your moped do as you wish
This is the angle the shocks are made for
The frame normally bends because of the point where it takes the stress. That point is not meant for that kind of abuse, and thus not reinforced. Welding some extra sheetmetal or a support bar (From the shockmount to the front of the frame IE.) on it should fix the problem.
The stress increases because the shocks are set at a more direct angle, compress more and therefore push out harder. That's because shocks store energy that is released by going over the bump. The more compression, the more energy stored.
That energy goes both ways, it's all a matter of what gives first. Your frame bending, or your swingarm going back to the original position. So if you go over a couple of bumps hard, chances are that the frame will bend because the shocks can't release the energy to the swingarm.
For a small demonstration: Try compressing a little spring between your fingers, you'll notice that the pressure is equal at both sides.
I just saw you have a support bar. Try making the shockmounts exactly inline with the bar, and you should be fine.
Yep in-line with the support bar was what I was going to recommend as well. Not only would it look the best (carrying the line thought the bike). But it would be the strongest point to mount too.
I did not think that the shocks were long enough to reach or else I would have mentioned it.
Just make sure your swingarm is not binding from the higher angle it is starting it's sweep from.
Way cool set up.
I think you are better to have the shock mounted closer to original orientation which is 70 degree from the plane of shock mount through swing arm fulcrum. Looks like in the first picky you have 35degrees the second with 40 degrees.
To see the difference in the loading on the shock use this formula
a^2 = b^2 + c^2 - 2(bc(cos a))
a is the length of the shock
b is a line drawn from the lower shock mount to the fulcrum
c is a line from the top mount to the fulcrum
if you do the math you see the more you lay the shock down the less effective it is as a damper and spring.
I would suggest that if you want to lower the moped to remove one or two turns from the bottom of the spring.
The bottom have the softer bearing of the progressive loading and would help stop wheel hop.
Just a thought.
i never was good at math but that make lots of sense .i could feel a big difference between 35 and 40 .no wheel hop so far.
i love it at 40 so far but i think im gonna try 35 with longer shocks.this will give me more flex and travel
whatever you decide, clean up that wiring!
ill get to clean up the wires one day soon
ooo just get some of that car harness cover with the split in it so you can still do developing and be able to hang the harness nice and clean out of the way.
sorry but dangly random wires is turning the project from HOT to NOT visually, just my humble unsolicited opinion.
If you think about physics (yes that highschool class has a benefit) if a force is applied to the bottom of the shock, lets say 75 lbs on each shock. When broken into it's component vectors the force is divided into x and y components. with the shocks exactly vertical, no pressure is being applied to your bike towards the front or rear of the frame. Lets say that the shocks are at 45 degrees on your bike so Fx=75(cos45). The pressure that is being applied to your bike towards the front of the frame is 53 lbs while 53 lbs is also being applied vertically. Any angle between 0 and 89 degrees will have a force towards the front of the bike the smaller the angle. the more force is being applied. If a large bump is hit the force applied to the shocks will increase a lot and possibly snap your frame. Just remember that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
physics and geometry of the original set up would surely snap in half ,i ride um hard.
as it is now the shocks absorb the terrain .it use to be the frame and my body took the brunt of it all.
i dont know a whole lot about physics but i do know this Pinto rides like a dream!
now i just need to clean up the wires,make frame fuel cell,add disc breaks...........etc.
Want to post in this forum? We'd love to have you join the discussion, but first: