Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

I didn't get into the details for step 2, but here it is in a nutshell:

buy some 'plastigauge' strips. read up here how it works.

when you are finished with the pucks and gear flip and are ready for final reassembly, you apply a strip of plastigauge on the shims at the end of the crank shaft/clutch drum and another strip on the shims on the main shaft. Then you place the clutch cover gasket on and the clutch cover, and tighten all the cover bolts down to 6ft/lb (8nm) in a star pattern.

THEN you loosen those bolts back up, and remove the clutch cover. You have now "smooshed" the plastigauge between the shims and the bearings in the clutch cover, and can measure the new thickness of the plastigauge strips to find your end float measurement. End float should be between .002 - .010in (0.05- 0.25mm) and can be adjusted by subtracting/adding shims of different thicknesses where needed.

then you carefully scrape off and remove all the plastigauge and reassemble clutch cover to torque again, secure in your knowledge that your end float is to spec. :)

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

Seems pretty simple mike! Good explanation.

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

Great, I'll do that for sure.

I torn down the carb yesterday. Great tips from PD on using brake cleaner -- super easy (except I shot some into my eye -- oops). Also the q tips with Brasso on the float valve seat shined it up really nice. Very helpful!!

There was syrupy goo in the bowl, and the jets were clogged, but all the parts seemed to be fine and I reused all of them even the float needle rubber seemed fine to me.

Only problem was no top gasket present, so I cut one from a 3X5 card with an oil stamp of the carb body for now. My treats order is way behind so I don't have a petcock or fuel filter/line yet to get it running...very frustrating! Should arrive any day now and we'll see if I can fire it up so I can move on to the shift pucks.

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

Lmao! @ squirted brake cleaner in your eye!

We've all been there before. Just get some eye protection brotha. I hardly work on my bike without them these days. Stupid mopeds. Save yer peepers.

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

Hi Moped Army,

I've got a progress update: After cleaning tank, fresh fuel mix, new petcock/fuel line/filter, carb clean and new spark plug -- it fired right up on first kick! I can't believe how great it runs! One kick and it went into a nice idle. Twisted the throttle, got great response. So, I had to then replace the flat front inner tube, then started riding it around! Works great.

I'm 210 lbs, and it was pulling like a champ. Seems to want to shift around 15 - 18 mph (does that suggest the 2nd is already flipped?). Pulled strong up through 25 mph and was still accelerating when I then chickened out (started thinking about 40+ yr old tires/ parts failing -- plus it felt like I was going more like 55 mph!). Maybe I won't need to worry about tuner parts if I can't handle stock speeds :).

I've got the ZA50 pucks on order and will start that process next to avoid catastrophic failure as discussed previously :(.

From all that, I've now got new questions as follows:

1) My Merit 342 (Puch 349.1.53.830.0) kill switch knob is broken off (like the one pictured -- that black plastic handle is gone) so I don't have a good way to shut it off!. I read about inserting a red hot nail into the plastic then using tape and shrink tubing for a new handle (https://myronsmopeds.com/category/electrical/switches/). Does anyone have any other suggestion on a fix here or replacement? Anyone got one to sell me?

2) The front wheel was almost impossible to get back on as it seems the forks are too close together! They don't appear damaged/crashed/bent, but I needed super human strength to pull them apart to get the wheel back on. I almost gave up. Anyone dealt with this before?

3) Inspecting the forks with the wheel off, the right fork is free to rotate (i.e. the chrome sprung fork will spin within the painted main fork housing), while the left one will only track up and down (won't spin). Is that normal or an indication of a problem?

4) Tested the headlights, horn, brake light -- all working, but seem quite weak. Is there maintenance needed to get better current flow?

5) The brakes (both front and rear) work, but you'd better really plan ahead! Stopping distance seems a bit scary for city driving. Any thoughts there? Do I need to redo the brakes?

Thanks again to all for all the help in getting me this far!! Very satisfying indeed just to cruise around the block after hours of study and work in the summer heat.

Matt

moped-army-d0be74f4d8a73ca005d6747cfc5dbd07.jpg

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

You remove the top bolts of both fork tubes, then drop wheel and inner fork tubes.

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

The wheel should be easy enough to get in. If it came off easy it should go in easy.

The switch you can modify as you mentioned to make it usable. But replace it as you can. Treats sells the switches.

Brakes can be adjusted at the brake plate and at the lever. If they are adjusted too far already the brake shoes may have gotten glazed and do not grab. Tou can sand paper them up to give them some better grip.

The only way to get better electrics is to replace the 6v ignition system to a 12v. You may be able to just replace the lighting coils on the stator.

Otherwise you are sounding like it is moving nicely for you.

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

Thanks guys. Makes sense. Figured out some of that on my own. My brakes needed adjusting. Tightening the cables improved them a lot. Ill sand the shoes when Im in there next.

On the switch, I torched a small nail red hot and stuck it in there. It held solid! I drilled a hole in a piece of black plastic and super glued it on. Perfect fix, doesnt really even look home made. Ill post a pic lof it later.

The front wheel was very hard to get back on as the forks seem too close together. Im a strong guy and It was allI could do. Sounds like removing the inner fork tubes is the way to go next time-'thx. Maybe something got bent along the wsy on this bike. Not obvious though.

Next problem is I seem to be fouling the plug quickly. Pic attached is of a new NGK after just running the bike once. Maybe my fuel mix is too rich with oil? I mixed a generous 2.6 oz to a gallon with a splash of Marvel. The carb is clean and has the factory jet 56 and atomizer 2.22. Or Maybe my home made top gasket is leaking-- but that would run lean I suppose?

20200722_094250.jpg
20200722_094239.jpg

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

The Hondas tend to run rich. This is especially true at other than sea level. I am running mine without an air cleaner. I will re-install when I drop it off for my daughter, who lives by the ocean.

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

john cervini /

If it's oily and black on the plug you could have a transmission side seal leak which will pull transmission fluid into the combustion chamber.

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

roots to wings /

Fred’s guide on wiki and Travis tutorials are really helpful too. Sounds like you are well on your way

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

Overpriced Parts /

Don’t take nothing for granted for you I would not run your bike no more to you service the engine/transmission.

On a bike build son and I finished a 2 weeks ago, We put a low mileage somewhat newer generation 1981 za50 engine on it, did a couple jetting/tuning runs (maybe a mile or two of use), it ran great and then it sat until I took apart the transmission, and removed main gear dampeners

Here are the pucks/dampeners :

7B6483CD-6D0B-4643-BF50-B3CC8143F4C5.jpeg

I made a mistake when putting in new shift dampeners, (Brand shown 2nd picture) I put the plate and screws on the outside/wrong side after I put them in. (It’s easiest to put the dampeners in when you’re putting the two parts together so you don’t have to try forcing them in)

I realized my mistake after I was tightening the last Loctited screw and disassembled it real quick to reverse everything before it was was dry and here’s what I found :

B0990CC5-BAD3-4BF8-8270-694B1ED97872.jpeg

One was broken in half and chips coming off the other two as soon as it was opened,

Do not use this brand of pucks/dampeners for they cracked and broke just during installation and wouldn’t of lasted more than a couple shifts, if you have them throw them away they need to be recalled because the purple material they’re made of is junk!

I ended up putting three of these in these in that I used before with good results:

5BAF47AB-5A08-4250-BA87-1D6B302C667C.jpeg

Blane is a good guy and he makes good stuff!

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

Yes the trick is to seat the pucks partially at an angle with the two plates and when you slide the parts together the pucks go in as they should. Just press them in flush with your thumb and put the plate on. It has to be done this way as they are actually compressed when seated in the gear. It is impossible to squeeze them with your fingers to slide them in.

The above pic is how every puck has looked for me as well. Replace those immediately.

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

Good inputs all. Thanks!

My plan on the plug fouling is to first eliminate weak spark (likely-- will clean, reset points), 2) move throttle needle clip to top top spot, 3) clean muffler (super nasty in there), 4) derestrict airbox ..to see if I can get to a toasty brown plug.

Failing that, ill look to trans side seal replacement while doing pucks. I bought Atomic reds.

Sadly, Im thinking about outsourcing the trans job as Im just not confident with checking/correcting end float and dont want to blow it after getting this far...especially if that side seal comes into play. Maybe Ill suck it up and do it...we'll see how it goes.

Please chime in with any thoughts on this strategy I should be aware of!

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

Overpriced Parts /

> Matt Gladd Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Good inputs all. Thanks!

>

> My plan on the plug fouling is to first eliminate weak spark (likely--

> will clean, reset points), 2) move throttle needle clip to top top spot,

> 3) clean muffler (super nasty in there), 4) derestrict airbox ..to see

> if I can get to a toasty brown plug.

>

> Failing that, ill look to trans side seal replacement while doing pucks.

> I bought Atomic reds.

>

> Sadly, Im thinking about outsourcing the trans job as Im just not

> t confident with checking/correcting end float and dont want to blow it

> after getting this far...especially if that side seal comes into play.

> Maybe Ill suck it up and do it...we'll see how it goes.

>

> Please chime in with any thoughts on this strategy I should be aware of!

Strategy with Mopeds is that you got to learn to do all repairs everything yourself as well as daily checks before you ride and maintenance intervals per manual

Because if you take it to a motorcycle shop most know nothing about a mopeds and don’t tested enough except to go around the block

And the hourly rate that they charge cost more than the moped most times

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

Yeah what roffman said.

The tough part about mopeds at this point is that they are vintage vehicles and will always require an elevated amount of attention than say a 10yr old 2stroke. I love that my wife is always prompting a moped ride then surprised that I'm out tooling in the bikes for a half hour before we get to ride. It is not fun pedaling one of these bikes more than a block or two so any amount of preventive checks that can be done ahead of time should be.

It is best to get as familiar with all parts of your bike/engine so that diagnosing issues becomes easier.

I also agree with that motorcycle/motorsports shops have no clue when it comes to working on mopeds. I never tell places what I'm working on, only the part I want, knowing i will have to adapt it in some way. I dont trust anyone to work on my bike unless I'm there to see what is happening, or if they have proved themselves to be competent and moped savvy.

I would not be concerned about simply replacing the pucks in that tranny. You will not need to mess with the float. You will be much more sad about the amount of work if those not getting changed does some actual damage to the parts inside. That would definitely require a new float to be measured and shimmed. (edited)

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

Hey Moped Army,

Quick question -- I pulled the airbox off with the engine running to find fuel mix spitting out the air inlet hole.

Anybody dealt with this before?

I'm thinking maybe I need to replace the float needle valve? I did not replace it when I disassembled and cleaned the carb. When I cleaned the carb it looked ok to me (rubbery, pointy). I cleaned the valve seat to a shine with a q tip and brasso.

Could that be the problem with me running so rich and fouling the plug as shown in the earlier pics?

Thx!

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

Also, related to my last post -- I should probably check to see that my float actually floats! Agreed? That could be the problem too I suppose...

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

One last thing. I just thought I'd share my result of repairing my Merit kill switch where the lever was broken clean off.

I heated a small nail red hot, then stuck it into the plastic. It actually held strong. Then I got a piece of plastic. I used the tip of an automotive "christmas tree" push pin. Very hard plastic. I drilled a hole in it to slide it on the nail, then super glued it all together, incl. plastic to plastic.

so far its working great and best of all it was free.

20200809_104648.jpg

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

> Matt Gladd Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> One last thing. I just thought I'd share my result of repairing my

> Merit kill switch where the lever was broken clean off.

>

> I heated a small nail red hot, then stuck it into the plastic. It

> actually held strong. Then I got a piece of plastic. I used the tip of

> an automotive "christmas tree" push pin. Very hard plastic. I drilled

> a hole in it to slide it on the nail, then super glued it all together,

> incl. plastic to plastic.

>

> so far its working great and best of all it was free.

That's called fixing stuff . Way to be . ;)

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

Thanks P D.

I'm interested to hear your input on my carburetor spitting issue (see 3 entries back from my initial post today).

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

Maybe float level is a bit too high ?

Maybe ignition timing ?

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

Thanks for that input.

I'll check those out. The float looked pretty level to me when I had it apart, but I could check it again given this issue.

Pardon my ignorance, but how would the ignition timing maladjustment result in the carb spitting?

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

If timing is too retarded , firing at or after TDC , a full draw from the carb is present in the cylinder and some can be pushed back through the carb when the piston is be blown downward .

Re: ZA50 question for Puch Maxi just pulled from storage

OK PD, thanks for your input, wouldn't have thought about your points.

On my carb spitting issue:

I've ruled out timing. I measured it at 18mm before TDC. My points gap is .016. All checks out fine. I burnished the points just a touch and I think my spark got stronger and added just a tint of blue (was pure yellow before).

So, I'm back to the carb. I think I'll check actual flotation on the float and how it is set, and replace the float pin and see if that fixes it.

Separately, I oiled up all the control cables today -- amazing upgrade. So much nicer now.

Thx! Matt

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