Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

Hi All,

My second post here...

I upgraded my Vespa Piaggio Ciao PX to 60cc, a better exhaust and a slightly opened up inlet. I am after a decent cruise speed of 40kp/h... 27kp/h is just toooo slow.

The carb is still a 12/10

The compression is 110... but the rings are new. I am guessing as they break in this will rise ?

The jets I have are 48 (stock), 58, 60, 62, 64, 66, 68

I can get it to idle. But once I open the throttle I get little acceleration, barely enough to get the tire going... and sometimes it even dies. It does this with all of these jets. That seems too coincidental. There seems little change any way I go; up or down.

What is going on here ?

I have a 13/13 on order. The one I have is junk.

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

Hmmmmm, I sprayed some carb cleaner between the card and intake and X-P it slow down and either dies or picks up.

Is a bad seal between inlet and carb causing all this misery ?

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

Clearly - dies when spraying at tip of carb to inlet tube.

Spraying at the cinch split seems fine. 'just need to figure a way to seal that. (edited)

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

Either an air leak or your piston is upside down. What jet do you have in it? What kit? What pipe?

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

Boy am I glad I took this pic... I can just make out the arrow pointing the right way.

IMG_3273.jpg

Checking if piston was upside down seems like it would have been a pain.

I tried the following jets on the 12/10: 42, 58, 60, 62, 64.

I don't have any jets between 42 and 58... I was not expecting to need them as I was going to use a 13/13 carb ...which turned out to be junk; it kept on flooding no matter what I did. Another 13/13 is on order.

The pipe is a Gianelli Citypower. The cylinder kit isa DMP or Dutch Motorcycle Parts

I tried the following jets with my 12/10: 42, 58, 60, 62, 64. I do not have jets between 42 and 58.

Tuesday a proper 13/13 should get here. Maybe that and sealing the vacuum seal will be the ticket ?

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

The cylinder has PW cast into it.

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

Yes- definitely put on that 13.

Also, those metal base gaskets are leaky crap- always. Thats probably your issue. Cut your own out of some gasket paper

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

ᴛᴇʀʀʏ ᴅᴇᴀɴ /

ok, to continue from the other thread- when you say you took the sharp edges off the intake, do you mean the sharp edges on the inside?

the rotary valve on a Vespa motor works when the inside of the case seals against the crank lobe, adjusting the hole inside the cases can be detrimental if care isn't taken to make sure it's done right, it doesn't take much to goof it. it sounds to me like you may have broken that seal, or at least adjusted the intake timing enough that your getting gas out the carb and it's affecting your running.

what air filter are you using? can you get a video of the gas coming out of the carb and post it up somewhere? (edited)

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

In an attempt to control that pesky air leak I put a bit of RTV between the bushing and the inlet pipe. That is where the air leak seemed to be coming from. Not from carb to bushing.

I did notice that the new plastic bushing did not fit as snuggly around this intake pipe as the original.

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

> the worst terry Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> the sharp edges on the inside?

>

> the rotary valve on a Vespa motor works when the inside of the case

> seals against the crank lobe, adjusting the hole inside the cases can be

> detrimental if care isn't taken to make sure it's done right, it doesn't

> take much to goof it. it sounds to me like you may have broken that

> seal, or at least adjusted the intake timing enough that your getting

> gas out the carb and it's affecting your running.

>

> what air filter are you using? can you get a video of the gas coming out

> of the carb and post it up somewhere?

Thanks !!!

I’m very, very sure I didn’t brake or modify that seal. I just took off some casting flash and sharp edges deeper in.

I tried both of these (stock and aftermarket) to the same result

[attachment 209868 F250A11C-F01F-4A4C-B01C-E1B7B9D33B23.jpeg][attachment 209869 F865E25A-1761-4D1C-B44F-075CB5825896.jpeg]

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

ᴛᴇʀʀʏ ᴅᴇᴀɴ /

how's it run with no filter? did you try looking for air leaks at the base gasket too?

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

It seems to have a tougher time idling without the air filter or with the high flow one.

Base gasket is the gasket between cylinder and case ? How does one check that for leaks ?

Conform to stock I left out the head to cylinder gasket.

I checked compression again and I’m about here

6C46BCB6-B3CA-4372-8288-FBF2F37E3DE1.jpeg

The rings are new, of course. (edited)

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

ᴛᴇʀʀʏ ᴅᴇᴀɴ /

spray where the cylinder meets the cases with carb cleaner, where the head meets the cylinder too.

compression is good enough to run, you can address that after you figure out what it's deal is.

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

ᴛᴇʀʀʏ ᴅᴇᴀɴ /

I never use a head gasket unless I absolutely have to, but I always make sure the head is flat by sanding on a piece of glass, and use copper spray for a good deal/heat transfer

IMG_20191018_143849.jpg
IMG_20191018_144222.jpg

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

> the worst terry Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> spray where the cylinder meets the cases with carb cleaner, where the

> head meets the cylinder too.

>

> compression is good enough to run, you can address that after you figure

> out what it's deal is.

Of course ! That makes sense.

I’ll start it up a little later today. I put some RTV between the bushing and inlet pipe as I found a significant leak there. My old plastic bushing fit very snuggly. (For the life of me, I can’t find it back!). This one doesn’t fît snuggly and bogs when I spray carb cleaner there. No effect when I spray higher up on the carb where the tightening slot and O-ring are

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

Very cool that copper spray !

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

ᴛᴇʀʀʏ ᴅᴇᴀɴ /

I meant good seal/heat transfer, I hope that was obvious haha. I'm terrible at internetting from a phone

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

Doin' the same here. Very tidy job. If the head is an issue, I am definitely trying this as a solution

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

So I think the carb inlet seems to be sealed if completely inappropriate for a 60cc. I have a 12/10 on there with a 64 jet. The 13/13 should be here Tuesday.

But... I seem to have base gasket leak.

Not that it matters, but the head seal is fine. (edited)

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

I am assuming this is the source of my issues? It probably can’t draw the mixture when I give it some beans. Also it is spitting back maybe? If that is a thing with faulty base gasket seals?

Someone said something about paper being a better seal than than those metal gaskets and I should cut my own ?

I guess the question is... could this be leading to all my woes ? (edited)

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

ᴛᴇʀʀʏ ᴅᴇᴀɴ /

definitely an issues that needs addressing. I use that kinda thickish rubberized gasket paper you can get from any auto parts store. It seals really well and has always worked great for me. I'll coat it in oil before putting it on too, if nothing else it makes it com off easier next time you pull the cylinder off.

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

Will do. Thanks Terry. Let’s address this and see if things clear up a bit.

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

it maybe electrical, points condenser , plug, coil etc. or...is this external ignition ground? if so ya gotta go thru brake circuit electricals or ground that blue wire.

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

I ordered a thick gasket paper and some copper spray. Tuesday ?

The points, plug, coil and condenser are maybe a year or two old and have hardly seen any use. I am tempted to replace the coil and condenser anyway...

Ground that blue wire pair? I thought was supposed to be a power input for the brake circuit? I also thought that this particular motor was missing an extra power out for that brake light?

So this blue wire needs to be grounded ? That is a gremlin source ?

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

Interesting

A49F3F96-5BAD-4049-B56B-545A142851AD.jpeg
B44E81B3-4F43-40AD-BFEA-DE3E2D89D607.jpeg

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

According to what I see here, and correct me if I am wrong... but that hanging blue wire outside the case should be connected to the back of the ignition low tension coil...

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

Groan !

With condenser removed, this is how I am wired.

8F3EDE7C-72B0-420E-BDE7-2276720943E0.jpeg

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

That green wire goes outside of the case to the red wire which handles the lights.

The Black/Gray goes to coil.

The internal red on seem to go from the point to the armature of the lighting coil.

SNAFU

The wiring diagram looks like it has a two wire condenser.... (edited)

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

> pat splat Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> it maybe electrical, points condenser , plug, coil etc. or...is this

> external ignition ground? if so ya gotta go thru brake circuit

> electricals or ground that blue wire.

Pat, I think you are on to something.

I have been reading a lot of diagrams; but I cannot seem to find one specifically for a Ciao PX 25.

I don't know is this is the original motor internal wiring... but I think it is supposed to be an "external ground"; I had no idea what that was.

So the brake light blue wire MUST be connected in order to get spark. And that would specifically ground to the eyelet connection I circled in blue above ?

Re: Vespa Piaggio Ciao only idles

I THINK I am reading correctly: that blue connector can simply ground to the case... but it is REQUIRED It grounds the entire circuit.

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